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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon G-series Digital Cameras 
Thread started 12 Oct 2014 (Sunday) 02:06
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Are High End P&S Over-priced?

 
mpix345
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Oct 15, 2014 13:33 |  #16

I have the G7X and am impressed by it. But I am considering a different direction. Maybe the Fuji X100 + Panasonic LF1. I take a lot of "casual portraits" around the house. They are probably the photos with most importance to me. I'd love to use FF for them, but that is sort of ridiculous. The G7X does a good job, but the Fuji gets much closer to look of FF (if you believe in that sort of thing).
Adding the LF1 (or similar) gives me an even more pocketable option than the G7X for taking anywhere.


  
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The ­ Dark ­ Knight
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Oct 15, 2014 15:15 |  #17

One thing I will add is that in my opinion, being truly pocketable is overrated. There does seem to be some people that like to literally have a camera in their pocket 24/7, but I'm not one of those people. If something happens where I just NEED to grab a picture, my phone is available, but honestly I don't really encounter random decisive moments at the grocery store or at work. But YMMV.

Even when I took my very pocketable RX-100 on vacation recently, it was around my neck in Sony's ever-ready style case (you want to talk about overpriced...). When I'm constantly walking around taking pictures, I don't want to have my camera in my pocket, take it out, put it back, etc. Having it around my neck was quite convenient.

But that did get me to thinking... if extreme pocketability is not that important, should I just bring along a bigger-sensor slightly larger camera?

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed having a smaller camera. Even around my neck the weight was virtually imperceptible, and the small form factor was good in terms of not getting in the way, not banging into things, etc.

So I feel like there's definitely a place for a smaller high quality camera. I just wonder (especially with prices what they are, going back to OP's point), if a better compromise might be something like a Micro 4/3 with a high quality prime lens on it.




  
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sneakerpimp
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Oct 15, 2014 16:11 |  #18

i too thought i was done with compacts once my iphone pics surpassed the quality of my trusty old S90.. the G7 X changes everything for me.


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tkbslc
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Oct 15, 2014 16:23 |  #19

The Dark Knight wrote in post #17214658 (external link)
So I feel like there's definitely a place for a smaller high quality camera. I just wonder (especially with prices what they are, going back to OP's point), if a better compromise might be something like a Micro 4/3 with a high quality prime lens on it.

But with these newer compact, what real benefit does a m4/3 body with a small prime have? I mean the LX100 has an m4/3 sensor and a f1.7 lens on it. The G7X has a 2.7x crop sensor (not quite a stop behind m4/3) with a f1.8 lens on it. G1X mark 2 has a 1.9x crop sensor with an f1.8 lens. RX10 has a 24-200mm f2.8 lens on a 2.7x crop sensor. Seems like you have no reason to buy a lens with a mount anymore unless you really want to use multiple lenses.


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mdd770
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Oct 15, 2014 16:30 |  #20

tkbslc wrote in post #17212533 (external link)
I also think it is helpful to really be honest about your goals for the photos and where you plan to share them. If they are going to end up on social media or printed in a 8x10 photobook, the detail and noise differences between some of the higher end cameras and a good, modern phone are going to be very minimal (ignoring focal length and DOF options, obviously). If you think you'll honestly, truly, sell the photos or print them 11x14 or larger, then it's probably worth lugging a big camera around.

Sometimes with myy S90 or my LX5 I felt like there was no situation where that was the right camera. Either I didn't care that much about perfect quality and my phone or an Elph was good enough, or I did and the S90 or LX5 wasn't good enough. Do I ever really have pictures where I kind of care about pro quality but not really? Because that's where those cameras lie.

I haven't used an RX100 or G7X, but I wonder if they are still in that gap. Will they be still be big enough that you will leave it home when you aren't planning to take pro-caliber photos? Will they have good enough quality for the times you did want that quality?


All good and valid points. So true.
I think these cameras are getting closer to that with 20 Megapix and F1.8, but are they still in that grey area? And the phones are advancing so much now with the latest models...


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The ­ Dark ­ Knight
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Oct 15, 2014 16:43 |  #21

tkbslc wrote in post #17214800 (external link)
Seems like you have no reason to buy a lens with a mount anymore unless you really want to use multiple lenses.

You just answered your own question there. Some people want to use interchangeable lenses. A small mirrorless will give you that option and may be close in price to the newer high-end P&S models.




  
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tkbslc
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Oct 15, 2014 17:25 |  #22

The Dark Knight wrote in post #17214832 (external link)
You just answered your own question there. Some people want to use interchangeable lenses. A small mirrorless will give you that option and may be close in price to the newer high-end P&S models.

Maybe I misunderstood you then. It sounded like you were going to get a m4/3 body and prime just as your vacation camera.

As a whole system that can pare down with a pancake for travel, then yes, I can see the appeal. Although then you'll be compromising your "Serious" stuff given the 2x sensor and FF pricetag for most m4/3 lenses.


Taylor
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eelnoraa
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Oct 15, 2014 17:50 |  #23

To me, the camera is either pocketable or not. Pocketable one has been replaced by iPhone. For the non-pocketable, if I have to bring a separate bag for it, I may as well bring a small SLR+prime


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HappySnapper90
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Oct 15, 2014 19:37 |  #24

No they aren't. 10 years ago top end P&S cameras cost $600 to $800 and could do ISO 200 (poorly) with slow performance. Much, much better now with greater value.




  
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mpix345
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Oct 15, 2014 19:38 |  #25

The Dark Knight wrote in post #17214658 (external link)
One thing I will add is that in my opinion, being truly pocketable is overrated. There does seem to be some people that like to literally have a camera in their pocket 24/7, but I'm not one of those people. If something happens where I just NEED to grab a picture, my phone is available, but honestly I don't really encounter random decisive moments at the grocery store or at work. But YMMV.....

For me the benefit of pocketability is being able to put the camera away easily and quickly, and retrieve it the same way. For example, we were at event on Sunday afternoon. Walking around the grounds of a school provided some nice photo opps, and the G7X made a difference vs my iPhone. Later we were inside, having drinks and snacks and chatting. No place for the camera, so in my pocket it went.

I don't carry a camera (beyond the iPhone) all the time, in my pocket or elsewhere. But I do find myself in plenty of circumstances where I'd like to shoot with a decent camera but also be able to put it away when desired. That certainly may not apply to everyone. That's OK.

I'm thinking about the LF1 because it is smaller and lighter than the G7X and has longer zoom and EVF (though marginal). IQ tradeoff certainly exists, but I think there is still room for it rather than just using my phone. As someone else in this thread said, that won't last much longer. Sony will soon have to make a pocketable APS-C camera to keep ahead of the Phoneses. Sorry; had to do it...


  
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The ­ Dark ­ Knight
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Oct 15, 2014 20:48 |  #26

mpix345 wrote in post #17215139 (external link)
For me the benefit of pocketability is being able to put the camera away easily and quickly, and retrieve it the same way. For example, we were at event on Sunday afternoon. Walking around the grounds of a school provided some nice photo opps, and the G7X made a difference vs my iPhone. Later we were inside, having drinks and snacks and chatting. No place for the camera, so in my pocket it went.

I don't carry a camera (beyond the iPhone) all the time, in my pocket or elsewhere. But I do find myself in plenty of circumstances where I'd like to shoot with a decent camera but also be able to put it away when desired. That certainly may not apply to everyone. That's OK.

I'm thinking about the LF1 because it is smaller and lighter than the G7X and has longer zoom and EVF (though marginal). IQ tradeoff certainly exists, but I think there is still room for it rather than just using my phone. As someone else in this thread said, that won't last much longer. Sony will soon have to make a pocketable APS-C camera to keep ahead of the Phoneses. Sorry; had to do it...

Well it gets lost in the shuffle, but the Ricoh GR can fit into a non-skinny jeans pocket. It's a 28mm f/2.8 equiv fixed lens though, so not for everyone.

I also thought Sony's RX1 was a darn impressive and fairly revolutionary product, but priced too high and a bit too specialized to really catch on.




  
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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Oct 17, 2014 01:00 |  #27

So after reading this book of a review, I think I may have finally made my choice: The Canon G7X! Originally I thought this camera would be a dud, but that was before I knew anything about it. Now I know it will be a big time rival to the Sony RX100 III, and even surpass it in a lot of ways. I really like the idea of a small mirrorless, and had read up on the Asia-only Canon EOS M2 (great prices on Amazon btw!), but anytime I would be using it without a pancake lens on it I might as well be using my 5DIII. Longer lenses would make the camera huge, and with my EF lenses mounted the tiny camera would be so out of balance it wouldn't be worth it. I like the viewfinder on the Sony RX100 III, but don't think I would use it that much on a camera that small. However, I LOVE the touch screen capabilities and longer zoom at constant 2.8 on the G7X. I want a truly pocketable camera (in any pocket, jeans, coat, shirt, shorts, etc.) and so the bigger cameras like the Canon G1X II and the Sony NEX 5T wont cut it. The price is pretty high, but after reading this review I think the G7X is worth it. One of the best comparison reviews I've ever read, with pretty much every detail about everything covered. If you would like to read, here it is: http://www.cameralabs.​com …PowerShot_G7X/i​ndex.shtml (external link)


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Trumper
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Oct 17, 2014 03:01 |  #28

I think that reading through this post it proves what a good choice of cameras we really have and just how popular these types of camera are to people who want to use a camera instead of a phone.
My first small camera after growing up on SLR's ie Zenit,Praktica etc was the Canon G3 [which i still have and use] .It did feel strange using it as it didn't seem like a camera therefore the process of "taking the photo" seemed lazy.
Taking photos with a phone now seems strange but i like the thought of a photo being taken by a camera rather than a phone.
The g3 was about the same price when i bought it to the g1x mk2 is today . Lets hope all the markets stay healthy and more good stuff to follow.




  
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low5530
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Oct 17, 2014 08:17 |  #29

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #17217512 (external link)
So after reading this book of a review, I think I may have finally made my choice: The Canon G7X! Originally I thought this camera would be a dud, but that was before I knew anything about it. Now I know it will be a big time rival to the Sony RX100 III, and even surpass it in a lot of ways. I really like the idea of a small mirrorless, and had read up on the Asia-only Canon EOS M2 (great prices on Amazon btw!), but anytime I would be using it without a pancake lens on it I might as well be using my 5DIII. Longer lenses would make the camera huge, and with my EF lenses mounted the tiny camera would be so out of balance it wouldn't be worth it. I like the viewfinder on the Sony RX100 III, but don't think I would use it that much on a camera that small. However, I LOVE the touch screen capabilities and longer zoom at constant 2.8 on the G7X. I want a truly pocketable camera (in any pocket, jeans, coat, shirt, shorts, etc.) and so the bigger cameras like the Canon G1X II and the Sony NEX 5T wont cut it. The price is pretty high, but after reading this review I think the G7X is worth it. One of the best comparison reviews I've ever read, with pretty much every detail about everything covered. If you would like to read, here it is: http://www.cameralabs.​com …PowerShot_G7X/i​ndex.shtml (external link)

Great choice! I like you would give up the rx100's viewfinder for a touchscreen and extra telephoto reach any day. Touch screen is one thing that Canon has gotten right on the small enthusiast cameras. Although I enjoy the likes of the fuji x100t and panasonic lx100 tactile feel and dials as well.(these analog layouts are even better for someone who is looking to learn alot about photography) But if you are a canon user already and are used to shooting their dslr's with quick adjustments on the fly I think you will find the touch screen method suprisingly quick and responsive. For me I wanted the largest sensor for as much control ove DOF as possible in the smallest camera possible for the best price possible. So alas I went with the Canon EOS M and 22mm f2 because of the larger aps-c sensor and fast prime lens and for $315 brand new on amazon wow. Of course I have to deal with the extra size over cameras like the sony rx100 and canon g7x though. However the eos m is still very small and will fit in a jacket pocket easily or cargo pocket. For a "truly pocketable" camera though that would have fit my criteria of largest sensor and DOF control I think the G7x would have taken the cake due to the longer telephoto end at f2.8 on a 1" sensor. Everyone has their different reasons for what they want in a camera based on what the like to shoot. The G7x is ultimately better than the sony rx100 in my opinion, but im a canon fanboy so tifwiw.


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yogestee
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Oct 20, 2014 05:27 as a reply to  @ post 17213579 |  #30

I remember buying a Sony Cybershot DSC-P8 3.2mp camera in 2004 for nearly 300 AUD. Took it around SE Asia for three months. I got some nice shots out of it including this one of Angkor Wat at sunrise.


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