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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 20 Oct 2014 (Monday) 20:06
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What am I doing wrong

 
tonylong
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Oct 21, 2014 16:28 |  #61

A lot of software "strips" Exif data and if you really want to know what a photog is doing you have to ask!!


Tony
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Oct 21, 2014 18:18 |  #62

Numenorean wrote in post #17225470 (external link)
Offering critique or pointing out problems is not necessarily going to sound nice. I don't think it sounds mean either. It's simply pointing something out. I fail to understand why you have to attach an emotion of some sort to it.

I have to just chirp in that I'm completely with you on this. Photographers have a habit of needing to feel loved. Do people want honest advice about their business or happy songs around a camp fire. FWIW for me your original post was emotion neutral (exactly as it should have been)... the problem it seems for some is that it was truthful and not fluffed up.

I can't see any reason that a member of the general public would hire the OP (even for free) given the work that is presented on the website.

If someone is going to venture into business they need to take the rough with the smooth. They also often need a huge does of reality before they waste money investing in the business that they currently have little to no prospect of making a success with what they are selling.

The OP can't give his work away for free (or is struggling to) that is one of the biggest indicators you can get that people don't want what they are selling. There is no product... not one that anyone can figure out what it is at least anyway (including the OP).


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Oct 21, 2014 18:23 |  #63

OhLook wrote in post #17225572 (external link)
The goal is to say it and have it mean exactly what it means.

The trouble with "Who would want to hire you?"

... is nothing. He said exactly what he meant. Don't ask for feedback on your business unless you actually want that feedback.


Peter

  
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mdaddyrabbit
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Oct 21, 2014 18:37 |  #64

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17226036 (external link)
... is nothing. He said exactly what he meant. Don't ask for feedback on your business unless you actually want that feedback.

I have not got upset about anything said here. I fully agree for the most part. I think folks, do like myself sometimes and jump into a conversation in the middle. Go back, I promise you I have not gotten upset. When I started this thread I already felt as rotten as can be. I have contemplated selling all my equipment and waste my time watching television. I don't think anyone here will be as hard on me as I am on myself.

I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as photography. That's why it hurts so bad to suck!


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ETS
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Oct 21, 2014 18:42 as a reply to  @ mdaddyrabbit's post |  #65

Your site is looking better already. Long way to go but you shouldn't quit.


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tonylong
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Oct 21, 2014 18:58 |  #66

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #17226056 (external link)
I have not got upset about anything said here. I fully agree for the most part. I think folks, do like myself sometimes and jump into a conversation in the middle. Go back, I promise you I have not gotten upset. When I started this thread I already felt as rotten as can be. I have contemplated selling all my equipment and waste my time watching television. I don't think anyone here will be as hard on me as I am on myself.

I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as photography. That's why it hurts so bad to suck!

Interesting, I'd say a difference between you and I is that we both enjoy photography but I don't do it as a profession. Only a couple people have offered and paid me to do some photography...but I'm a "retired" guy!!:)!!


Tony
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Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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OhLook
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Oct 21, 2014 19:41 as a reply to  @ post 17225713 |  #67

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17226030 (external link)
Photographers have a habit of needing to feel loved. Do people want honest advice about their business or happy songs around a camp fire. FWIW for me your original post was emotion neutral (exactly as it should have been)... the problem it seems for some is that it was truthful and not fluffed up.

I'm among the ones you're talking about. Let me correct your misimpressions. The problem for me wasn't that the comment was truthful. I like truthful. The problem wasn't that the comment wasn't fluffed up. I'm not even sure what you mean by "fluffed up." The problem was that the feedback was delivered as a putdown. It was tactless. It was rude. Constructive criticism is different.

"Happy songs around a campfire"? I can hear the sneer in there.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | Comments welcome

  
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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 21, 2014 20:27 |  #68

I think he and Num. are conflating SENSE and TONE (See: Frege) as if to be tactful (concerned with tone) somehow necessarily distorts the proposition being expressed (the sense). I think of sense and tone as being distinct aspects of an expression, but who knows, right ?

OhLook wrote in post #17226170 (external link)
I'm among the ones you're talking about. Let me correct your misimpressions. The problem for me wasn't that the comment was truthful. I like truthful. The problem wasn't that the comment wasn't fluffed up. I'm not even sure what you mean by "fluffed up." The problem was that the feedback was delivered as a putdown. It was tactless. It was rude. Constructive criticism is different.

"Happy songs around a campfire"? I can hear the sneer in there.



christopher steven b. - Ottawa Wedding Photographer

www.christopherstevenb​.com (external link)| Blog (external link)

  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Oct 21, 2014 20:34 |  #69

There is no tone in text. The only "tone" is the one the reader decides to put on what is said. Some sensitive folk tend to apply their own tone and different meaning to what was actually said. One of the joys of written text on the Internet.


Peter

  
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Tedder
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Oct 21, 2014 20:42 |  #70

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #17226056 (external link)
...I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as photography.

In that case, make sure you keep shooting and keep enjoying yourself!


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Oct 21, 2014 21:09 |  #71

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #17226056 (external link)
I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as photography.

Then keep doing it... just bear in mind that there is a big difference between these two things though...

"I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as photography"

and

"I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as having a photography business"

The two are not the same. Not even close. Starting a photography business (for many) can be the catalyst which causes them to lose their love of photography.

Personally I'm in the second camp (although you could possibly omit "photography" from the statement). Unless I'm shooting a wedding/couple (and the odd ex client's family) or on holiday/travelling I have no interest in photography at all as an activity. There are countless things I'd rather be doing.

One thing I've never understood is why so many photographers thing that the next step after having a love of photography as a hobby is to open a business.


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OhLook
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Oct 21, 2014 21:25 |  #72

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #17226219 (external link)
I think he and Num. are conflating SENSE and TONE (See: Frege) as if to be tactful (concerned with tone) somehow necessarily distorts the proposition being expressed (the sense).

I think they're tone-deaf.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17226241 (external link)
There is no tone in text. The only "tone" is the one the reader decides to put on what is said.

I disagree. A communication involves two parties, the sender at one end and the receiver at the other. Both of them may have biases and predispositions, but a sender can't shed all responsibility for how a message will be received by assigning the whole job to the receiver. You might as well say that there's no such thing as style in writing and therefore a novel is only a transmission of information.

A paragraph of feedback and advice, which is what the OP requested, is quite different from a page of equations. The latter really has no tone.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | Comments welcome

  
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tonylong
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Oct 21, 2014 21:30 |  #73

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17226320 (external link)
Then keep doing it... just bear in mind that there is a big difference between these two things though...

"I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as photography"

and

"I have never found anything that I enjoy doing as much as having a photography business"

The two are not the same. Not even close. Starting a photography business (for many) can be the catalyst which causes them to lose their love of photography.

Personally I'm in the second camp (although you could possibly omit "photography" from the statement). Unless I'm shooting a wedding/couple (and the odd ex client's family) or on holiday/travelling I have no interest in photography at all as an activity. There are countless things I'd rather be doing.

One thing I've never understood is why so many photographers thing that the next step after having a love of photography as a hobby is to open a business.

Heh! There certainly is a difference between doing something as a hobby or an "art" and doing something as a professional! I've done both, concentrating on something professionally even though it did involve some art/creativity, it is certainly a challenge, but these days photography has been all about the creativity. Some people have looked at my Web host and made positive comments, sure, but it has still been about the "stuff". But then I'm a "senior citizen"!!!:)!!!


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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Martin ­ Dixon
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Oct 22, 2014 04:41 |  #74

Massive website improvement! I'd go further and stick with the one first image that one does look nice! - forget the slideshow until you have a better collection. Add some words - eg: Your cherished moments preserved. - make up your own short sentence!


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jc1350
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Oct 22, 2014 09:59 as a reply to  @ Martin Dixon's post |  #75

If this has been stated already, my apologies.

It looks like your watermark is auto-placed in the same location on every photo. In at least 2, it goes right across someone's face. If it were mine, I'd move the watermark to part of the photo were it would be less obtrusive.

Example: http://www.mgwarrenpho​tography.com/p66495714​0/h1f43aa60#ha46ab4c (external link)


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What am I doing wrong
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