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Thread started 22 Oct 2014 (Wednesday) 12:17
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7D mk II image quality RAW worse than 7D for now

 
stsva
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Oct 28, 2014 17:57 |  #196

Here are two sections of the red leafy cloth in the Imaging Resource ISO 200 sample for the 7D2, processed using DPP 4.1, default sharpening, no noise reduction, then cropped in CS5 at 200% view. The top section is from the top right corner of the cloth, which I thought was a generally worse-looking area when I previously processed the sample, and the bottom sample is from the area I thought looked better when I previously processed it for comparison to the 6D sample (it's a smaller section of the same area shown in the second image below, which has the 7D2 on top and the 6D on the bottom). I applied a levels adjustment in CS5 so the details would be more visible. The second image is the same comparison I previously posted between the 7D2 (top) and 6D (bottom), processed through DPP 3.14.41. I think the only real difference between the 4.1 image on the left and the 3.14.41 image on the right is contrast; the level of visible detail appears to be the same.


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AllenF
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Oct 29, 2014 10:17 |  #197

Thank you for your hard work.
I have a feeling that the update may be more about the 64 bit version than a correction ( if needed at all) of the red channel and the way it is handled. It looks like DPP is not as good as ACR. I know I typically use ACR and Lightroom or Dxo for my PP and once ACR/Dxo is updated(perhaps it is already I have not checked) then I will revisit this sample issue. I also will wait for Imaging Resource to post their 7DmkII production model samples as well as this will be the real world results we will be paying for.

On my monitor the earlier effort looks better but I am guessing that it was too much PP as when you looked at the other fabric samples you saw they were negatively impacted and thus why the new sample was enhanced less. Working to fix one area is easy and the results can be dramatic but then looking at the overall image will show that the dramatic improvement is too much as the rest of the image is less than ideal. That is why I asked to see your final PP formula applied to the entire fabric wheel. For both the 7DmkII and the 6D as these were your comparison samples to elected to PP.

Once again thank you.


7D, 20D, G10, T90, A-1, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 2.8 IS L, Canon 100-400L, Canon 500D, 2 ea Canon 580 ex, Canon ST-E2, Velbon El Carmagne 630 Carbon fiber tripod with an Acratech Ultimate Ballhead, Acratech Leveling Base, Velbon Carbon Fiber SHERPA PRO POD NEO POD 8, Tons of RRS plates and quick release mounts, and flash stands diffusors and back drops, ETC...

  
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stsva
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Oct 29, 2014 10:27 |  #198

AllenF wrote in post #17239671 (external link)
Thank you for your hard work.
I have a feeling that the update may be more about the 64 bit version than a correction ( if needed at all) of the red channel and the way it is handled. It looks like DPP is not as good as ACR. I know I typically use ACR and Lightroom or Dxo for my PP and once ACR/Dxo is updated(perhaps it is already I have not checked) then I will revisit this sample issue. I also will wait for Imaging Resource to post their 7DmkII production model samples as well as this will be the real world results we will be paying for.

On my monitor the earlier effort looks better but I am guessing that it was too much PP as when you looked at the other fabric samples you saw they were negatively impacted and thus why the new sample was enhanced less. Working to fix one area is easy and the results can be dramatic but then looking at the overall image will show that the dramatic improvement is too much as the rest of the image is less than ideal. That is why I asked to see your final PP formula applied to the entire fabric wheel. For both the 7DmkII and the 6D as these were your comparison samples to elected to PP.

Once again thank you.

I typically use LR for my 7D images, so I'll also be happy when the ACR/LR update comes out that will handle the 7D2. I think it probably won't be too long; DPReview used an "early build" of ACR 8.7 that will handle 7D2 RAW files to post some samples on October 15 (see here - http://www.dpreview.co​m …i-real-world-samples-beta (external link)).


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gabebalazs
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Oct 29, 2014 10:52 |  #199

I downloaded ACR 8.7 RC and it did not support the 7DII. SO maybe DPreview got a special version.


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afalco
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Oct 29, 2014 14:04 |  #200

gabebalazs wrote in post #17239728 (external link)
I downloaded ACR 8.7 RC and it did not support the 7DII. SO maybe DPreview got a special version.

I don't know about Dpreview, but ACR is not the only player on the market: e.g. RawTherapee 4.1.74 (2014.09.13!), an OS and free RAW converter and editor can open the sample 7DmkII raw files without any problem. And this is not the latest version.

What I don't understand why can't Adobe's ACR do it?


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kesterc
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Oct 29, 2014 15:59 |  #201

afalco wrote in post #17240096 (external link)
What I don't understand why can't Adobe's ACR do it?

Probably has something to do with adobe not wanting to release half-assed software. (They try to, at least :D )

http://www.dpreview.co​m/forums/post/54648072 (external link)



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someone0
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Oct 29, 2014 16:25 |  #202

kesterc wrote in post #17240268 (external link)
Probably has something to do with adobe not wanting to release half-assed software. (They try to, at least :D )

I don't know if you truly think like that or you are working for adobe? How about Flash player? Well come to think of it, you are right, flash is not a half-assed software. It is close to being a junkware.




  
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afalco
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Oct 30, 2014 14:06 |  #203

kesterc wrote in post #17240268 (external link)
Probably has something to do with adobe not wanting to release half-assed software. (They try to, at least :D )

http://www.dpreview.co​m/forums/post/54648072 (external link)

Thanks for the link! So RawTherapee can convert 7D2 CR2 files because they had data from the 70D.

Adobe might have better connections to camera makers than some independent developers have and might even get pre-release samples from them. But even if it wasn't so I think it would benefit Adobe to create a "Release Candidate" with tentative support for new cameras. Just tell us it is not the final product.

I remember the first time Adobe officially supported the 7D. It was crap. Still I was happy that I could use Lightroom to open my images otherwise I would have been stuck with DPP, which wasn't really good. The next version of ACR that supported the 7D was much better, which made me even happier.

How much time will they need to add support to ACR now that the camera is on the market I wonder?


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Phoenixkh
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Oct 30, 2014 15:13 |  #204

For the few of you who have your 7D Mk ii in hand: what is the mAH of the new LP-E6N?


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Oct 30, 2014 16:29 |  #205

Phoenixkh wrote in post #17242251 (external link)
For the few of you who have your 7D Mk ii in hand: what is the mAH of the new LP-E6N?

1865


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Oct 30, 2014 18:33 |  #206

looking at what Im seeing so far I cant see any point upgrading my 7D. I have full frame as well and as we have two 7Ds in the house (mine is early model hubby's is near new) I may as well use hubbys newer 7D when mine dies. The image quality I'm seeing here is not enough difference. Not saying there is anything wrong with the images but I dont see enough here to make me pay the amount for 7DII that it will be here in Australia....I will wait and see over the next few weeks though


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Phoenixkh
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Oct 30, 2014 21:02 |  #207

Thanks, KurtB.

I won't be getting my 7D Mk ii for a while and I know my 70D batteries will work. I like the Sterlingtek LP-E6 batteries because they've lasted longer and are 2600 mAh. I'll wait and see how things develop between now and when I get it the new camera.


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1DX2 | 1D IV | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS | 100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
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AllenF
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Oct 31, 2014 00:29 |  #208

aladyforty wrote in post #17242569 (external link)
looking at what Im seeing so far I cant see any point upgrading my 7D. I have full frame as well and as we have two 7Ds in the house (mine is early model hubby's is near new) I may as well use hubbys newer 7D when mine dies. The image quality I'm seeing here is not enough difference. Not saying there is anything wrong with the images but I dont see enough here to make me pay the amount for 7DII that it will be here in Australia....I will wait and see over the next few weeks though

You pretty much summed it up. FOR NOW. Like you I need to be convinced before I open my wallet. I am happy with the 7D and have not had any real big issue, with the exception of video focusing and ISO noise. This threads topic is pretty much on hold until Imaging Resource updates their sample images and perhaps we have better RAW converters. Then we can dig deeper to see where the best PP is and if the 7DmkII is REALLY different from the 70D or just the same pony with some new tricks.

There is no doubt for those who need them the features are there but I think we all want more than that and incremental ISO noise improvement WITHOUT impacting the detail.

One other thing I found interesting.... Is this the first time Canon is weather sealing a battery grip? I don't recall this happening before.

I know OFF TOPIC!!! But since I have everyone's attention I thought I would ask. ;)


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Oct 31, 2014 00:58 as a reply to  @ AllenF's post |  #209

Just shot a football game with my new 7D Mark II.... absolute beast of a camera... now to figure out how to get them into lightroom lol...


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Oct 31, 2014 04:37 |  #210

erdons wrote in post #17243161 (external link)
.... absolute beast of a camera......

Any definitions of ‘beast’ or more informative info on your thoughts about it?


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