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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 29 Oct 2014 (Wednesday) 04:18
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Ten of the Most Expensive Photographs Ever Sold.

 
ziemowit
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Oct 31, 2014 15:42 |  #61

let me repeat myself, for the last time.

if you don't know what your talking about, don't talk about it.
since the cave drawings art was more then nice compositions. its an expression of concepts, religious in the ancient times, philosophical in the more recent, personal etc. if you're creating nice compositions with no thought behind them, its vernacular activity.

uneducated opinions are worthless in any field, be it medicine, law or art.


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Tedder
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Oct 31, 2014 15:45 as a reply to  @ ziemowit's post |  #62

Anyone who wishes to express an opinion about art is free to do so. No approval from self-declared authorities is required.



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ziemowit
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Oct 31, 2014 15:46 |  #63

just as anyone can express an opinion on medicine. for example, my opinion today is paracetamol will kill you.


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airfrogusmc
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Oct 31, 2014 15:52 |  #64

Yeah the great thing about the internet is everyone has a voice.
The bad thing is everyone has a voice... LoL

And anyone can say anything and they might be right but many I see are very wrong and we have history to show us how wrong some are.




  
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NBEast
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Oct 31, 2014 15:53 |  #65

Love the pond shot. Some of the others ...?

I'm visiting the Norton Simon this Saturday. Some wonderful stuff there, but their modern art section is just a fascinating tribute to what once passed for art. Hey; LSD can do wonders!


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Tedder
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Oct 31, 2014 15:58 |  #66

airfrogusmc wrote in post #17244252 (external link)
Cindy had to start somewhere. She wasn't always selling like she has been. Many here don't get the bodies of relating work concept. many here just keep growing horizontally but not vertically. They learn all the technical things but have little knowledge of the visual side of the coin. No interest in history. And history is SO important. Many just don't like anything else but their own work. The guys and gals creating work that is fetching the big bucks are of course the idiots and talentless hacks and the ones creating for all their buddies on a forum are the cutting edge of creativity :lol::lol::lol:


I expect that you're right. I'm just disinclined to place people on a scale of artistic sophistication based on what they do and do not like.

"I like the work of Cindy Sherman" does not strike me as a more legitimate opinion than "I dislike the work of Cindy Sherman."

I might be in error, having read too few art-history books, but where art is concerned, I'm inclined to reject the Cindy Sherman Rule. :)



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Various Items (external link) Mineral Matters (external link) The Bench (external link) Tracks (external link) Cars and Stripes (external link) Behind the Wheel (external link)
Classical Beam Theory Revisited (external link)
Circles of Confusion (external link) Waterous Disturbulations (external link)


  
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Tedder
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Oct 31, 2014 16:05 |  #67

ziemowit wrote in post #17244334 (external link)
just as anyone can express an opinion on medicine. for example, my opinion today is paracetamol will kill you.

If there were doctors of art whose prescriptions were potentially deadly, that would be an apt analogy, mate.



Tedder Stephenson's Flickr (external link)
Various Items (external link) Mineral Matters (external link) The Bench (external link) Tracks (external link) Cars and Stripes (external link) Behind the Wheel (external link)
Classical Beam Theory Revisited (external link)
Circles of Confusion (external link) Waterous Disturbulations (external link)


  
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airfrogusmc
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Oct 31, 2014 16:06 |  #68

I will put some on what they do and do not know.

Like I posted in an early thread from another source you should feel free to like or dislike whatever but you should understand why something might be considered good or important. I am not the biggest fan of Joel Peter Witkin but I do think his work is important and I clearly understand why. A lot of Cindy's work is about how media depicts woman by putting herself in those roles. I think her work is interesting because it makes us all look at how we view and what images of woman we freely except.

A repost from an earlier post I made in this thread:
Here
http://char.txa.cornel​l.edu/language/introla​n.htm (external link)

Taken from the next to the last paragraph one the first page.
"The important point to remember is that we should all feel free to like or dislike what we will, on grounds of personal taste. HOWEVER, please note that there is a distinction between personal taste or preference and objective judgements of success or failure in a work of design or art. It is possible to recognize that a work is successful and significant, even though it does not suit our personal taste. It should be clear that unless one can lay claim to a high level of expertise it is rather immoderate to condemn a work as "bad" just because one doesn't like it. It is important for an artist to understand this distinction,......"




  
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Luckless
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Oct 31, 2014 16:39 |  #69

ziemowit wrote in post #17244328 (external link)
let me repeat myself, for the last time.

if you don't know what your talking about, don't talk about it.
since the cave drawings art was more then nice compositions. its an expression of concepts, religious in the ancient times, philosophical in the more recent, personal etc. if you're creating nice compositions with no thought behind them, its vernacular activity.

uneducated opinions are worthless in any field, be it medicine, law or art.

I've studied art history for years, and my opinion is that much of what passes for modern 'art' is pretentious BS born by way of what amounts to a circle jerk as 'artists' who couldn't hack it or gain attention any other way, and instead generated something 'different' for the sake of being different, and then continued to pat themselves and each other on the back for their 'groundbreaking' work.

There are several large bodies of work which I personally hope will be buried and forgotten so as to not inflict the monstrosity that is their visual effect on future generations.


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airfrogusmc
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Oct 31, 2014 17:16 |  #70

Sorry that you feel that way. Maybe you should have an exhibit and call it degenerative and that will be the last time anyone will see it before it is locked up or destroyed...Oh that's right, been done...LoL..

For being such so called creative people so many seem to have a very narrow view....




  
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Luckless
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Oct 31, 2014 17:43 |  #71

You honestly think that every artist is being completely serious, producing a body of work that actually merits all the wonder and praised heaped on it, and that there isn't a single one out there who has based their career on talking out of their ass to sell what they know is junk? Because you would be rather wrong.

Then there are also those who up sell themselves and think what they're doing is actually good, but frankly I find their work to be ugly with no redeeming qualities to it. But since I don't join them in their little circle-jerk then I'm obviously uneducated and not worthy of even being in the same space as they are or looking at their work...

And I really don't know why you would feel sorry that I dislike some art. I dislike lots of forms of art because I find them highly unappealing. (About 90% of male country singers for example... Mostly from the mid 80's and onward when dead dogs and broken hearts seemed to really take hold in lyrics.)

And I also dislike people who insist that "if only you were a little more educated then you would like it"... Ignoring the fact that many of us ARE educated on the subject, and yet we still find some art to be about as worthwhile as a steaming pile of fresh manure. (And even that is often unfairly said about the work, seeing as manure is at least valuable as composting material.)


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airfrogusmc
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Oct 31, 2014 17:48 |  #72

Where do you read this stuff. I never said that. I feel bad that you would want anything buried. Even the stuff I don't like I don't want buried.




  
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Tedder
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Oct 31, 2014 18:28 |  #73

airfrogusmc wrote in post #17244365 (external link)
...Taken from the next to the last paragraph one the first page.

"The important point to remember is that we should all feel free to like or dislike what we will, on grounds of personal taste. HOWEVER, please note that there is a distinction between personal taste or preference and objective judgements of success or failure in a work of design or art. It is possible to recognize that a work is successful and significant, even though it does not suit our personal taste. It should be clear that unless one can lay claim to a high level of expertise it is rather immoderate to condemn a work as "bad" just because one doesn't like it. It is important for an artist to understand this distinction,......"

Regardless of whether I agree with those statements, what makes them binding on anyone? Is it the "level of expertise" of Charlotte Jirousek, author of Ottoman influences in Balkan dress? If someone with a higher "level of expertise" than Jirousek stated that the definitions of success and significance in art are inseparable from personal preferences and that there are no such things as "objective judgments" (note the spelling), would that viewpoint trump Jirousek's. Who decides?

I see no more basis for accepting the Charlotte Jirousek Rule than I do the Cindy Sherman Rule. :D



Tedder Stephenson's Flickr (external link)
Various Items (external link) Mineral Matters (external link) The Bench (external link) Tracks (external link) Cars and Stripes (external link) Behind the Wheel (external link)
Classical Beam Theory Revisited (external link)
Circles of Confusion (external link) Waterous Disturbulations (external link)


  
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Tedder
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Oct 31, 2014 18:34 |  #74

Luckless wrote in post #17244428 (external link)
I've studied art history for years, and my opinion is that much of what passes for modern 'art' is pretentious BS born by way of what amounts to a circle jerk as 'artists' who couldn't hack it or gain attention any other way, and instead generated something 'different' for the sake of being different, and then continued to pat themselves and each other on the back for their 'groundbreaking' work.

There are several large bodies of work which I personally hope will be buried and forgotten so as to not inflict the monstrosity that is their visual effect on future generations.

According to today's most renowned art theorists, you need to increase your expertise by reading 3.25 more art books. Then you'll enjoy even the pretentious BS. :)



Tedder Stephenson's Flickr (external link)
Various Items (external link) Mineral Matters (external link) The Bench (external link) Tracks (external link) Cars and Stripes (external link) Behind the Wheel (external link)
Classical Beam Theory Revisited (external link)
Circles of Confusion (external link) Waterous Disturbulations (external link)


  
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airfrogusmc
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Oct 31, 2014 18:38 |  #75

Tedder wrote in post #17244570 (external link)
Regardless of whether I agree with those statements, what makes them binding on anyone? Is it the "level of expertise" of Charlotte Jirousek, author of Ottoman influences in Balkan dress? If someone with a higher "level of expertise" than Jirousek stated that the definitions of success and significance in art are inseparable from personal preferences and that there are no such things as "objective judgments" (note the spelling), would that viewpoint trump Jirousek's. Who decides?

I see no more basis for accepting the Charlotte Jirousek Rule than I do the Cindy Sherman Rule. :D

You don't have to except anything. There are clear reason why some of htis work is considered important. Now whether you like it or not is a different conversation.




  
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