stupid propective client

qdrummer21 wrote in post #17252014
The trick in business is always to give the customer what they want, not what they ask for. I've got tons of stories where I've had customers, non-photography business, who didn't realize that these two things aren't always the same. ...

That's golden advice right there.

Also keep in mind that you could have the best offering at the best price at the right time and still not win. The bottom line is anyone who's sold more than 1 of something has lost a sale for various reasons. Shake it off and close the next one.

SuffolkGal wrote in post #17254608
You'll get used to it .. (not). Maybe next time say, I can do what you ask for and all this other stuff as well. I assume the client saw your website?

It is what happens, you don't get every job (just as well with some too). If you can't get used to it you shouldn't really be in business.

You expect it if being you are realistic about being a business. It is part and parcel of being the game... completely pointless ranting about not getting a job. Move on after analysing what you did to see if there is anything to be learned from. Calling someone who didn't buy from you "stupid" just because you are bitter about not getting the job... hardly professional.

As for offering sympathy to someone who refers to people who don't hire them as being "stupid"... well if that is the attitude they take on here one can only guess at the impression they give to potential clients.

As for being a "fellow photographer". The OP owns a camera, I own a camera that is as far as any "fellowship" goes. Does the OP want honest feedback from a BUSINESS forum or a pat on the back or gold star for having a go?

As for your other comments... well... if that is how "fellow photographers" act I'd rather not be one to be honest. If I want a fellowship I'll watch LOTR.

1000WordsPhotography wrote in post #17254637
That's golden advice right there.

Also keep in mind that you could have the best offering at the best price at the right time and still not win. The bottom line is anyone who's sold more than 1 of something has lost a sale for various reasons. Shake it off and close the next one.

It was vacuous advice without any substance. A client has SPECIFIED what they want quoted for a bidding process. Only a complete imbecile would ignore that.

What is more likely happened here is that the OP and some other tog both entered quotes for what the customer specified. The other tog was asked to come in and when that happened the other tog saw that they needed something else.

There is stuff all the OP could have done about this situation. In an ethical world the customer would have put out requests for new bids, but more often than not that doesn't happen.

FWIW, when I was in sales I would frequently angle a client towards a product that only I could offer, or would beat those I knew I would be competing with, It's a tough world out there!

Edit: I guess I'm still in sales..sigh

SuffolkGal wrote in post #17254696
What is more likely happened here is that the OP and some other tog both entered quotes for what the customer specified. The other tog was asked to come in and when that happened the other tog saw that they needed something else.

There is stuff all the OP could have done about this situation. In an ethical world the customer would have put out requests for new bids, but more often than not that doesn't happen.

There is also every chance the client just didn't like the OP. Many a time I've paid a premium for an "equivalent" service where the person was more likeable and filled me with more confidence about what the experience of hiring them and having them do the work would be like.

The customer has no obligation to hire one business over another... nor do they have an obligation to allow someone to re-quote.

At least they told you they were going with someone else...far too many times potential gigs are given to others without notice.

SuffolkGal wrote in post #17254613
Stop picking the guy to pieces. He lost a deal, it hurts.

Instead of being a total wanker you could act like a fellow photographer and let the guy vent and maybe even offer some sympathy. But oh no, it's much easier to be a twathead troll.

If someone is "hurt" because he loses a deal, this is the wrong business to be in. Seriously. This business is far too competitive to waste time feeling sorry for yourself when you lose a gig. Yeah, it sucks. But get over it, man. Brooding about it wastes time.

Venting is fine; have at it. Sympathy? No, that wastes time, too...

SuffolkGal wrote in post #17254696
It was vacuous advice without any substance. A client has SPECIFIED what they want quoted for a bidding process. Only a complete imbecile would ignore that.

except the customer may not actually be wanting the product they specified, they may be wanting to verify the pricing (from another vendor)
Happens all the time...

kenwood33 wrote in post #17251835
Recently bid on a project. The prospective client list A as her requirement with sample images supporting it. I gave her my work exp in the area of A, sample images to prove, and a quote. Also mentioned I am available to meet or a phone conversation for further discussion. Finally got a response today saying they chose someone else because he has experience in B. What throws me off is I actually have more experience in B than A. But this prospect never mention anything about B. Anyway just want to hear other people's story of stupid prospective clients to make myself feel better.

Actually it should be "The prospective client listed", list is not the correct tense.

"available to meet or a phone conversation" is also incorrect grammar.

"mention" again wrong tense.

I have always found it imperative to double and even triple check spelling, grammar and punctuation when calling someone or something stupid.:o:o

This almost seems totally off-topic and picky until you realize that there are in fact some people (not necessarily the OP) who actually communicate like this in their business interactions and who perhaps don't understand the impact of that.

Northwoods Bill wrote in post #17255896
Actually it should be "The prospective client listed", list is not the correct tense.

"available to meet or a phone conversation" is also incorrect grammar.

"mention" again wrong tense.

I have always found it imperative to double and even triple check spelling, grammar and punctuation when calling someone or something stupid.:o:o

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #17255925
This almost seems totally off-topic and picky until you realize that there are in fact some people (not necessarily the OP) who actually communicate like this in their business interactions and who perhaps don't understand the impact of that.

I agree wholemindedly. Full disclosure, or as full as is needed here: I'm biased toward estimating a person's intelligence from his or her use of language, although nonnative English speakers get a free pass.

SuffolkGal wrote in post #17254613

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17251942
Do you call all prospective clients that don't hire you stupid?

Stop picking the guy to pieces. He lost a deal, it hurts.

Instead of being a total wanker you could act like a fellow photographer and let the guy vent and maybe even offer some sympathy. But oh no, it's much easier to be a twathead troll.

He has a point however.

If the OP takes that attitude with every pitch that fails, they are going to really struggle to stay in business. Rather than thinking that they didn't get the gig because the client is stupid and chose someone else, they should ask themselves why the other guy got the gig and not themselves. Then aim to do better next time.

If a pitch fails, the client isn't in the wrong, the pitcher didn't sell themselves well enough. Maybe they could have included their experience in B (and even C and D) as part of their pitch, or called the client to discuss their needs rather than simply saying they are available to talk. Maybe that is what the other guy did? They could have called the client and discussed the job in detail, then given them more options such as B, whilst the OP sat back and waited.

There are times when the client may already intend to hire a particular person, yet have to get quotes as part of the process. The odds are always heavily stacked against you in a case like this but, again, calling them to ascertain their needs and making a well targeted killer pitch can swing opinions and allow you to steal the job.

The key thing is attitude. If you don't get a job it is unlikely to be because the client is stupid and far more likely that the pitch wasn't good enough, or that the pitcher didn't make enough of an effort to communicate with the client, to discuss their needs and how you can meet them.

I think Memoriesoftomorrow was commenting on the OP's reaction that their pitch failure was due to a faulty client, rather than the far more likely cause of them putting forward a poorer pitch than the other guy.

Northwoods Bill wrote in post #17255896
Actually it should be "The prospective client listed", list is not the correct tense.

"available to meet or a phone conversation" is also incorrect grammar.

"mention" again wrong tense.

I have always found it imperative to double and even triple check spelling, grammar and punctuation when calling someone or something stupid.:o:o

You forgot the Oxford comma in your last sentence.

Ma'am this in commonly known in sales especially in complex sales processes. If you assume that everything the client says is gospel then this is sure to happen to you.

What happened most importantly is not that the other tog saw something they needed but that the OP didn't. That's the real failure here. If the OP worked harder to identify the need then he could have put himself in position to win the deal.

SuffolkGal wrote in post #17254696
It was vacuous advice without any substance. A client has SPECIFIED what they want quoted for a bidding process. Only a complete imbecile would ignore that.

What is more likely happened here is that the OP and some other tog both entered quotes for what the customer specified. The other tog was asked to come in and when that happened the other tog saw that they needed something else.

There is stuff all the OP could have done about this situation. In an ethical world the customer would have put out requests for new bids, but more often than not that doesn't happen.

FWIW, when I was in sales I would frequently angle a client towards a product that only I could offer, or would beat those I knew I would be competing with, It's a tough world out there!

Edit: I guess I'm still in sales..sigh

Willie wrote in post #17256185
You forgot the Oxford comma in your last sentence.

Except the need for the oxford comma is a debated subject even among grammar "experts."


Also, I think without knowing what A and B were and how different they were it is impossible to judge if the OP could have ever imagined B as being important. For all we know A=Wedding photography and B=Architecture photography.

It would be nice to know more, but I assume the OP thinks that might reveal the specific client.

sandpiper wrote in post #17256013
He has a point however.

If the OP takes that attitude with every pitch that fails, they are going to really struggle to stay in business. Rather than thinking that they didn't get the gig because the client is stupid and chose someone else, they should ask themselves why the other guy got the gig and not themselves. Then aim to do better next time.

If a pitch fails, the client isn't in the wrong, the pitcher didn't sell themselves well enough. Maybe they could have included their experience in B (and even C and D) as part of their pitch, or called the client to discuss their needs rather than simply saying they are available to talk. Maybe that is what the other guy did? They could have called the client and discussed the job in detail, then given them more options such as B, whilst the OP sat back and waited.

There are times when the client may already intend to hire a particular person, yet have to get quotes as part of the process. The odds are always heavily stacked against you in a case like this but, again, calling them to ascertain their needs and making a well targeted killer pitch can swing opinions and allow you to steal the job.

The key thing is attitude. If you don't get a job it is unlikely to be because the client is stupid and far more likely that the pitch wasn't good enough, or that the pitcher didn't make enough of an effort to communicate with the client, to discuss their needs and how you can meet them.

I think Memoriesoftomorrow was commenting on the OP's reaction that their pitch failure was due to a faulty client, rather than the far more likely cause of them putting forward a poorer pitch than the other guy.

It might not have even been that. There are too many unknowns to know what happened. Both parties being equal, it could have been something as simple as the other photographer and the company hiring having a mutual friend vouching for the guy. The saying "its not what you know, but who you know" exists for a reason. Once that rapport is built, most likely the company is going to go with that person.