Is it any wonder shops are closing down...

Timphoto wrote in post #17247777
Wilt, I can't answer the chicken/egg question, but your comment about the local hardware store minded me of something I was wondering a while ago. We have a nearby local hardware store that is affiliated with the "ACE Hardware" group. Great little store. I'm not sure if that's a franchise or what, but it does give the owner the advantage of some significant group buying power, and advertising. At the same time, each store is not a "cookie cutter" building and the owner(s) have the ability to customize their stores to the local market. It's my first choice when I need hardware.

I travel the US for work, and often find myself looking for metric hardware. I live in Orlando FL, and love the College Park ACE Hardware, so I seek out ACE/Truevalue stores when I'm on the road. I haven't had a bad experience in one yet.

Colonial Photo and Hobby in Orlando is a great place to shop also. Very helpful staff, in fact they are so helpful often you have to wait in line 15 minutes for the clerk to finish helping someone else. It's a pain for me because, I typically already know what I want, and I'm just buying it locally to have it right this second. I'll give up 10-15% for that.

Timphoto wrote in post #17247777
Wilt, I can't answer the chicken/egg question, but your comment about the local hardware store minded me of something I was wondering a while ago. We have a nearby local hardware store that is affiliated with the "ACE Hardware" group. Great little store. I'm not sure if that's a franchise or what, but it does give the owner the advantage of some significant group buying power, and advertising. At the same time, each store is not a "cookie cutter" building and the owner(s) have the ability to customize their stores to the local market. It's my first choice when I need hardware.

I've wondered why camera stores couldn't operate on the same concept? A loosely organized business group with centralized purchasing and advertising clout, while still maintaining some of that "local" store flavor?

As OhLook pointed out, it's just a matter of time when the no tax advantage disappears for on-line firms. Perhaps the "ACE" Camera store business model might work then.

Yes, there is a local hardware store here also that goes under the "ACE" umbrella/brand but they have the look and feel of local/independent store. People there are usually older and very nice and actually know what they are talking about. They will spend the time to help you find exactly what you are looking for. Can't say that about Home Depot or Lowes

My local camera shop is just the opposite. Every time I go in there I get the friendly, "hi, how are you?". I respond and then they ask me what camera I'm using. The second I reply they're running around trying to sell me everything in the store. Last time I went in there for a battery I spent 30 minutes looking at extremely overpriced, used telephoto lenses.

FYI, Ace is a dealer owned co-op formed just for the reasons stated, Buying power....so is True Value and Do It Best.

Finally, something on here I know more about than most of you photographers!

Here in the UK my local stores were Jessops and Jacobs. Jessops staff were useless whilst Jacobs staff were practicing photographers. Jessops prices weren't competitive whilst Jacobs were. Jessops stock was poor whilst Jacobs had a fantastic range.

Guess who's still in business ? ? ? Yep, Jessops

On the odd occasion I go in there now, I am greeted at the door and asked what I am after. I am then told so and so will be with me soon. Normally I get p****d of waiting and go before I am ever served. I was also told don't go in there on the weekend when Saturday staff will be on and they will have zero photography knowledge..........

h14nha wrote in post #17273837
Here in the UK my local stores were Jessops and Jacobs. Jessops staff were useless whilst Jacobs staff were practicing photographers. Jessops prices weren't competitive whilst Jacobs were. Jessops stock was poor whilst Jacobs had a fantastic range.

Guess who's still in business ? ? ? Yep, Jessops

On the odd occasion I go in there now, I am greeted at the door and asked what I am after. I am then told so and so will be with me soon. Normally I get p****d of waiting and go before I am ever served. I was also told don't go in there on the weekend when Saturday staff will be on and they will have zero photography knowledge..........

The really funny thing about this is that Jessops was a much bigger company than Jacobs, and was in financial difficulties for a very long time before going bust at about the same time as Jacobs did. I was actually quite surprised at the fact that anyone would actually think that the Jessops brand was worth saving given the history. Gt Yarmouth did have a Jessops for a while, although the particular unit they were in, in the local shopping center, has a bad reputation for businesses going bust, Granada TV rentals, some big German PC brand from the 90's had both been in there previously. It went quite early on in one of Jessops round of cost cutting exercises. It's a JD Sports now. That branch of Jessops was run by photographers, but it was a little one. They knew what they were talking about. Now the closest camera shops are 25 miles away in Norwich. There used to be a Jessops, which was quite small and crowded. This was also run by photographers. They then moved it to a bigger unit in a shopping center and it was run by "salespeople", who quite quickly replaced the knowledgeable staff from the old store, and did not really have a clue. The Jessops is gone now, but there is a branch of LCE, as well as the WEX Showroom and a couple of little independant specialist second hand places.

Alan

AlFooteIII wrote in post #17243436
As the commercial says: "You go to B&H!"

Even there I had clueless help from disinterested employees out on the floor...
I remember being shocked at the time as I fully expected a different experience than the typical BB and WM debacle of a service experience...

andrikos wrote in post #17276680
Even there I had clueless help from disinterested employees out on the floor...

right, the knowledgeable photography people are out making big bucks on photoshoots, not selling extra filters and tripods behind the counter

watt100 wrote in post #17277059
right, the knowledgeable photography people are out making big bucks on photoshoots, not selling extra filters and tripods behind the counter

Not sure if this is a serious comment...

Have you been there?

The people behind counters take your orders and then your money.
They have no interest in talking to you.

The employees spread throughout the megastore are supposed to be "customer service".

It is true that most small business are losing out to big-box stores and on-line retailers because of price and a lack or customer services. But not all of them. Some have learned that collective bargaining can keep prices competitive and good customer service will keep people coming back even if they could get it cheaper elsewhere.

For example, I live in a (very) small town. We have an Ace hardware store. I can walk in and ask any cashier, clerk, salesperson, or stock boy if they carry such-and-such, and the person I asked will immediately tell me exactly in which aisle and where in that aisle I can find it. If they don't carry it, they will say so (no BSing around) and will offer to get it for me as fast or faster than I could order it from an on-line competitor.

I think service like that deserves my patronage, even if it costs me a wee bit more.

andrikos wrote in post #17277486
Not sure if this is a serious comment...

Have you been there?

The people behind counters take your orders and then your money.
They have no interest in talking to you.

The employees spread throughout the megastore are supposed to be "customer service".

Have you been there yourself? The person behind the desk just takes your order and lets the basement people start the roller coster transport, they have cashiers downstairs that take your money!!!!

I work in between Adorama and B&H so I visit enough to know a few of the sales people. There is a wide variety of quality of sales at both sites, being a customer and seeing how other customers are treated. Both stores have their hard core sales people, I acutally had one guy (lets call him Bill) actually crituque my purchase telling his customer that they should get the pricier option right in front of my face, as he was pushing the "special" Tiffen 3 pack filter set and the extended warranty on top of her first dslr purchase.

But there are some very good and knowledgable staff too. I usually take my number and hunt them down and wait until they are free. The other issue that Ive noticed is that the time and day of week you go makes a big difference. Good luck trying to have a conversation about the difference between A, B, or C on a Sun or evenings. During those times, I know its much better to show up with the SKU of an item that I want and just get out of there.

lilkngster wrote in post #17278180
Have you been there yourself? The person behind the desk just takes your order and lets the basement people start the roller coster transport, they have cashiers downstairs that take your money!!!!

Yes I have and that's what I said.
I didn't bother to mention the "order upstairs", "pay downstairs" spiel.
They're both people behind counters. Hassidic Jews upstairs taking orders, women downstairs taking your money.

andrikos wrote in post #17278835
Yes I have and that's what I said.
I didn't bother to mention the "order upstairs", "pay downstairs" spiel.
They're both people behind counters. Hassidic Jews upstairs taking orders, women downstairs taking your money.

Ya, I assume you had been there, it was more a lighthearted statement, given the tone and humor of a lot of you other posts

The situation the OP described is exactly why I do all of my research via the internet and then subsequently buy through the internet. It has been a very, very long since I've walked into any brick and mortar store and found an employee that knows more about a product than I do. I'm not putting them down or trying to elevate myself, it's just that I do extensive research on whatever item it is I'm interested in. I'm sure most enthusiasts are the same way.

Bryan

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #17243283
This can be said about many shops, not just camera. For those who don't know it, Radio Shack is probably going away. They are long past financial troubles that can be fixed. They may just go away.

Pundits all have different reasons for it, but in my experience it is the same problem as the OP. There was once a time when employees could answer questions, give advice, suggest solutions. But, like in the example of the camera store above, employees are clueless idiots who often don't even know bare basics.

It is the fault of the system. If the corporation - the stores - hire "clerks" who know nothing about the products in the store and because of it, lose sales then I say good. Let them fail. Good bye and good riddance.

I know about this first hand. My son worked there a short while back. They actually drill these kids with constant training trying to get them up to speed so they're effective and capable. In order to get through these tests they have to study...at home, not at work while they're getting paid. They have all these expectations and still want to pay them minimum wage and only while you are there. So effectively they make like $4-$5 per hour while training. They tout their "advancement opportunities" as the reason one should make this kind of commitment but the salaries of even store managers are crap and their products are often still overpriced.

So the kids stick around a while and move on to something better before even completing their training. Then the process starts over. If they invested more money into this training and starting wages they could make their people much more loyal and effective and bring up their sales to a point that they could make up in volume what they lose by dropping some prices. And then they could get back to growing. Sadly they seem to want to go the other way.