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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 16 Nov 2014 (Sunday) 21:42
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Yongyou Compatability - 400D

 
bart70
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Nov 16, 2014 21:42 |  #1

Hi,

I have a Canon 400D that I have had now since they were first released. It has been (and still is) a gret camera for me but my uses have changed a little and I now do a lit of relatively close range night time reptile photography (geckos, lizards, snakes etc...). I am having issues with the inbuilt flash recycle time (even when focusing), and am now considering a speedlite to eliminate the issue, as well as progress my photographic experience.

I have been looking for a relatively inexpensive E-TTL speedlite. The Yongyou models meet this category (although some have experiences reliability issues with their units) but I am experiencing issues with confirming which models are compatable with my Canon 400D. I am particularly interested in using it as an E-TTL shoe mount and understand that as the 400D does not have a flash menu, these settings will need to be changed via the flash itself.

The Yongyou website says the YN-500EX II, YN-565EX II, and YN-568EX II are compatible with the 400D, whilst some sellers are categorically stating that they aren't. Internet searches are also providing conflicting information.

What I am looking for is some confirmation one way or another if the models above will work with my 400D in E-TTL hot shoe mode.

Happy to listen to opinions and advice...I am by no means a top end photographer but enjoy dabbling and experimenting with my equipment.

Cheers,
Bart




  
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rpolitsr
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Nov 17, 2014 00:10 |  #2

Please check the brand of the flashes you are asking for.
Yongyou is a software company.
Yongnuo has the three models YN-500EX II, YN-565EX II, and YN-568EX II for their flashes .


rafael
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bart70
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Nov 17, 2014 00:47 |  #3

rpolitsr wrote in post #17276471 (external link)
Please check the brand of the flashes you are asking for.
Yongyou is a software company.
Yongnuo has the three models YN-500EX II, YN-565EX II, and YN-568EX II for their flashes .

I think from your response you know which one I am talking about.....especially given that I quoted the model numbers you re-quoted.

If anybody has any knowledge of my question that extends into photography realm now that my spelling has been corrected it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Bart.




  
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Trailboy
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Nov 17, 2014 03:16 |  #4

bart70 wrote in post #17276257 (external link)
What I am looking for is some confirmation one way or another if the models above will work with my 400D in E-TTL hot shoe mode.

Happy to listen to opinions and advice...I am by no means a top end photographer but enjoy dabbling and experimenting with my equipment.

Cheers,
Bart

Those models will work with your canon 400d in standard on camera ettl mode. My choice would be the 568.

But on camera flash is not the best way to photograph close range reptiles. You really need to

- get that flash off camera to light your subject more naturally on a different axis to the camera, perhaps with a modifier depending on your intended result
- use the flash in manual mode for more consistent results.

To do this, you can either buy a

- ttl cord or even a basic pc cord (not recommended because advanced radio triggers are now ubiquitous)
- radio trigger, such as a Yongnuo 622tx and 622 receiver (which gives you limited remote control, even on your oldish camera when using the dedicated 622tx).

Then just practice and experiment.




  
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bart70
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Nov 17, 2014 04:16 as a reply to  @ Trailboy's post |  #5

Thanks Trailboy - Great info!

Yes - I had already concluded that perhaps camera mount might not provide the best lighting for reptile photograhy. Most of the other guys I photograph with use the standard camera flash and a remote manual slave at approx 90 degrees to the subject.

In my case I am a little inexperienced to play with a manual slave just at the moment, and my primary issue is that the Canon AF uses the inbuilt flash as a focus light - due to the age of the camera it is causing recycle issues (the flash recycle isn't what it once was) and am finding I can wait 15-25 secs before I can take the shot after focusing. By that time the snake is often off and we find ourselves handling (sometimes highly venomous) snakes more than we really want to as we try to reposition for more shots.

My initial thought was to replace the camera until it was suggested that a speedlite might be a good stop-gap measure providing external AF assist, a better flash than the inbuilt one, and if I got the right one it would be useful should I upgrade the camera in 12 months etc....My long term aim would probably be to get a slave to use with the camera mounted speedlite down the track. Most people I have spoken to have suggested that a good speedlite should provide me a better result than the inbuilt flash which is all I had to work with anyway.

I appreciate your advice....maybe I am better off accepting that I need to work more in manual mode and look at a manual slave as well and experiment a little more. A close friend has a Nikon D3300 and uses the inbuilt and a slave with some mazing results......but he has spent a lot of time working it all out.

Out of curiosity...Some of the higher model camera's have wireless TTL allowing you to use remote 'slaves' in TTL mode. What is your opinion of this system as opposed to using manual mode? Is it a case of manual allows you to be more creative or does the wireless TTL slave arrangement tend to produce substandard results?




  
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J ­ Bruja
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Nov 17, 2014 04:43 |  #6

Bart 70 have you considered a ring flash unit ??




  
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Trailboy
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Nov 17, 2014 04:54 |  #7

You could use your inbuilt flash to trigger a remote flash while retaining any focusing benefits that it offers.

Make sure that the remote flash you purchase has an S1 and S2 optical trigger mode - these modes ignore the canons TTL pre-flash and therefore only fires at the same time as the shutter. Your inbuilt flash will unfortunately contribute to your exposure then (depending on your exposures, the camera should really be in manual mode as well using macro), which isn't desirable if you ask me as you want natural results.And your batteries wont last long, as you have found out.

You cant set your 400d inbuilt flash to manual output unfortunately, which would be an ideal solution as you can set it low and then it will fire optically a remote but not contribute to exposure. Better Canons allow this.

Given a trigger like a 622tx, you will only have off camera light coming at your subject. They do include a built in IT focus assist, but I suspect that its not well aligned enough for such macro subjects as your lizards.

Learn to focus manually.

Some camera do have inbuilt flashes that can control optically a remote ***ex flash gun, such as a 60d. But that means a whole new camera and a flash.

Manual flash would be preferred when experienced because it offers more consistent results, but for beginners with no confidence, ttl might be the way to go.




  
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bart70
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Nov 17, 2014 15:15 as a reply to  @ Trailboy's post |  #8

Thanks Trailboy,

I didn't realise that using S1 or S2 optical mode slaves would eliminate triggering when the inbuilt flash is flashing for focusing. This is worth me keeping in mind.

The only real issue I have with using the inbulit flash at all is the significant delays I am encontering during recycle - 10-25 seconds of 'busy' before I can take the shot after focusing is not ideal, but also concede that a hot shoe mounted TTL may not be ideal either.

Out of curiosity, would a shoe mounted flash with the head unit tilted away (up or behind), used in conjuction with an optical slave be an option? My thinking being that the shoe mount will provide lower light trigger for the slave - much like using the inbuilt flash on a lower output to trigger a slave. This may at least get me away from the issue of having to wait for recycle of the inbuilt flash after focusing before taking each shot.

J Bruja - I had not really considered a ring flash as I had previously considered them as a purely 'macro only' type flash. Our reptile photography falls into the purely macro realm at times, but a lot of the time is not so much so (particularly when photographing highly aggressive venomous species). I will do a little more research on them.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Nov 17, 2014 15:48 |  #9

Trailboy wrote in post #17276671 (external link)
Given a trigger like a 622tx, you will only have off camera light coming at your subject. They do include a built in IT focus assist, but I suspect that its not well aligned enough for such macro subjects as your lizards.

it depends on the lens' focal length.

I would guess that a longer lens would be used and either an on camera flash or 622 with IR focus assist would work fine. That said, it would be better to get the flash off camera.

There is also a means to adjust the 622 IR assist that has been covered in this forum, somewhere.


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bart70
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Nov 17, 2014 17:28 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #10

Just so I understand this correctly,

The YN-622c TX connects to my hot shoe and allows wireless control of compatible wireless (EX) slave/s located away from the camera utilising TTL or manual modes if I wish? (EDIT: Just found some specs on the unit...is for use with a 622 receiver connected to a compatible flash unit).

Providing the AF assist was useable this could be a suitable option for getting away from the inbuilt flash for focus purposes as well as providing off camera lighting providing the focus point for close'ish photography was ok.

Excuse my ignorance and I am not fully up to speed with all the options and features of the many and varied products out there.




  
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Trailboy
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Nov 18, 2014 04:01 |  #11

bart70 wrote in post #17277772 (external link)
Thanks Trailboy,

I didn't realise that using S1 or S2 optical mode slaves would eliminate triggering when the inbuilt flash is flashing for focusing. This is worth me keeping in mind.

The only real issue I have with using the inbulit flash at all is the significant delays I am encontering during recycle - 10-25 seconds of 'busy' before I can take the shot after focusing is not ideal, but also concede that a hot shoe mounted TTL may not be ideal either.

Out of curiosity, would a shoe mounted flash with the head unit tilted away (up or behind), used in conjuction with an optical slave be an option? My thinking being that the shoe mount will provide lower light trigger for the slave - much like using the inbuilt flash on a lower output to trigger a slave. This may at least get me away from the issue of having to wait for recycle of the inbuilt flash after focusing before taking each shot.

J Bruja - I had not really considered a ring flash as I had previously considered them as a purely 'macro only' type flash. Our reptile photography falls into the purely macro realm at times, but a lot of the time is not so much so (particularly when photographing highly aggressive venomous species). I will do a little more research on them.

S1 and S2 modes ignore exposure determining preflash from the on board TTL flash. I'm not sure how your on-board works as a focus assist, but if it is a constant light source then it shouldn't trigger the remote flash too early.

Your recycle problems are caused by your camera trying to correctly and fully expose the subject with just the on-board flash. This means it is outputting a lot of light, which means it is slow to recycle to full when you can then take another picture.

The on-board flash was never designed for the uses you're putting it to, and to be honest, will never give you a decent result anyway.

Stop trying to make do and wasting time, and concentrate on creating the best most natural lighting (off camera) for your subject (lizards) and the best means of triggering that light (to me a radio trigger).

The technicalities is the easy bit, macro photography is a law unto itself and is a very skilled topic to learn.

Out of curiosity, would a shoe mounted flash.....

Yes, you can two flashguns in the manner you have described, though that means you can only work in manual mode. Dumb optical triggering is a very efficient means of working with macro lighting. Unfortunately, you can't set your inbuilt flash to fire in manual so will need a new flash just as a trigger - better Canon camera models can (like my 60d which you can set to 1/64th manual power just to optically trigger the remote). TTL optical triggering is another option, but has been superseded by radio. Better to go radio from the start.

Ring flash gives a very flat, shadowless, unnatural, ring flash like look. Best avoided, imho.




  
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Trailboy
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Nov 18, 2014 04:04 |  #12

bart70 wrote in post #17278016 (external link)
Just so I understand this correctly,

The YN-622c TX connects to my hot shoe and allows wireless control of compatible wireless (EX) slave/s located away from the camera utilising TTL or manual modes if I wish? (EDIT: Just found some specs on the unit...is for use with a 622 receiver connected to a compatible flash unit).

Providing the AF assist was useable this could be a suitable option for getting away from the inbuilt flash for focus purposes as well as providing off camera lighting providing the focus point for close'ish photography was ok.

Excuse my ignorance and I am not fully up to speed with all the options and features of the many and varied products out there.

Yes.

622tx and 622 transceiver work in the manner you describe.

The AF assist alignment is a little bit hit and miss with them, but you can take it apart (pppppft goes your warranty) and realign it somewhat specifically for macro close subjects. Most serious macro workers use long macro lenses, to get out their own lights path and makes things a lot easier, and then the IR focus assist on the 622 may align just fine.

Nobody was born a photographer.




  
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bart70
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Hatchling
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Nov 18, 2014 04:43 |  #13

Thanks again Trailboy - What you say makes a lot of sense.

Most of my macro or close photography is with longer lenses, and some is not really macro at all (nobody really wants to get too close to a highly venomous snake in its strike position!) but a remote wireless RX & TX will greatly improve these shots over and above the inbuilt or camera mounted flash, which as you say is struggling to perform a task it was not really designed to do.

After reading this thread I think I will get a TX & RX combo and look for a nice flash that can be used on the shoe for more conventional photography, or remotely via a wireless RX when needed for reptile photography.

I agree on your comments regarding wireless Vs optical trigger - a friend of mine uses optical triggering of his slaves and it is a pain as none of us can set up to photograph the same subject as we continuously trigger his flash units.

Thanks for your time in answering my questions - you have helped me understand the 'hows and whys' of my situation.

Cheers,
Bart.




  
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