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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 20 Nov 2014 (Thursday) 09:30
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Attention Everyone.. Read this and be careful

 
jecottrell
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Nov 20, 2014 16:13 as a reply to  @ post 17284072 |  #31

BTW, it's a lease and not a loan.

Lease = 100% deductible as an expense, no? Not depreciated....




  
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rc9999
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Nov 20, 2014 16:34 |  #32

jecottrell wrote in post #17284106 (external link)
BTW, it's a lease and not a loan.

Lease = 100% deductible as an expense, no? Not depreciated....

Who cares if its deductible or not? It's outrageous either way....


Rob

  
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rc9999
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Nov 20, 2014 16:35 |  #33

Road Dog wrote in post #17283991 (external link)
Dude, it's a bird. I hate to break it to you, but that's what birds do when they're in trees...

haha...hilarious! :lol:


Rob

  
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WhidbeyHiker
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Nov 20, 2014 21:00 |  #34

50% of the poeple will probably default and they'll be the lucky ones, but RTO isn't hiding anything.




  
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FarmerTed1971
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Nov 20, 2014 21:11 |  #35

rc9999 wrote in post #17284136 (external link)
haha...hilarious! :lol:

Indeed.


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jackinavox
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Nov 20, 2014 21:20 |  #36

jecottrell wrote in post #17284106 (external link)
BTW, it's a lease and not a loan.

Lease = 100% deductible as an expense, no? Not depreciated....

This. Personally, we 'lease' all our equipment from Canon directly, interest free.

And I would assume any financial lenders would do some sort of credit check before they approve a loan to someone to reduce the risk of default, after all they maximise their profit if you do end up paying off the lease.

But in principle, yes there are better options.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Nov 20, 2014 21:37 |  #37

umphotography wrote in post #17283358 (external link)
This ... has horrible consequences for the industry. It will lead to people getting over their heads financially and selling Cheap Cheap Cheap to try to pay off the loans.

I don't see it as bad for the industry.

1) Workshop providers will have even more desperate togs to sell their wares to. Keeping that side of the industry thriving.

2) More businesses falling over at the lower end will just serve to make the industry less attractive to new comers... which can't be a bad thing.

3) Who cares about the people who sell cheap? They are in the price shopper market segments where few actually run sustainable businesses anyway. They also don't affect those with solid businesses.

4) If someone takes one of those loans having had all the information about them presented in the open then do they really have the smarts they should have to be in business in the first place? It isn't like they are being conned.


Peter

  
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the ­ flying ­ moose
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Nov 20, 2014 23:04 |  #38

There are places like this everywhere. Payday loans, rent to own furniture places are just an example. You walk into one of those places knowing the risks and reading the fine print. If you don't bother to research beforehand, that's not the fault of the business, that's the fault of the consumer. If someone is stupid enough to do that, just to start a photography business, then I am not going to feel bad. I've got enough to worry about in my life that's actually important, not whether some company may or may not be ripping people off.




  
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Mark_ms
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Nov 20, 2014 23:55 |  #39

No where on either Adorama or B&H did I find any financing available through the RTOcamera. Adorama is specific as to what they will take for payment Cash, CC, Debit Card, Google checkout and Paypal. Probably the same for B&H.

I went to RTO website and they are vague as to the major institutions they deal with. I also looked at the application form and where you list the equipment you want they ask what "source" (store, website) the equipment you want is.

I think it is unfortunate that the OP named 2 major camera companies before checking his facts.


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armis
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Nov 21, 2014 04:34 |  #40

I think you guys are all being a little bit unfair.

Do I think it's a stupid option? Yes. But then, I think you shouldn't ever use credit aside from buying a house or maybe a car, so meh.

Do I think it's prohibitively expensive? Definitely.

However, I submit to you the following:
- I have no idea where the notion that B&H/Adorama support this comes from, but it's neither mentioned on RTO's website or on Adorama's.
- However, Adorama does offer something called Flexshopper, which is also a lease option. A $3,200 Canon 5d3 body would get you weekly payments of $133. For how many weeks? I have no idea because they're really careful not to give you that info until you've actually applied for it, which seems way more shady. Still, assuming a tame 12-month/52-week duration, you're looking at total payments just shy of $7,000, which is even worse than what RTO offers (since total cost is comparable but spread out over 2 years).
- Lensrentals offers rentals of a 5d3 body for... $132 per week, exacly the same weekly cost as Flexshopper, except, well, you don't own the body after 12 months. Their Keeper program credits you 100% of the first 7 days' rental fees and 30% of the rest towards the purchase of the rented equipment. A quick calculation indicates that if you rented a 5d3 for 52 weeks, and based on their lowest prise estimate for a 5d3 body, you'd still have to pay $581 at the end of the year to keep it - a total cost to you of $7,445 (excluding shipping) for a second-hand body!
- For comparison, going through RTO for a $3,200 new 5d3 would "only" cost you $6,655.

Now, did Facebook and POTN explode with outrage when Adorama adopted Flexshopper (whenever that was)? No.

Did the photographer community flip out when Lensrentals started their rental business, or when they announced Keeper? No. In fact, the perception around here seems to be that Lensrentals walks on water (and they do seem like fine chaps, just to be clear - I only bring them up for comparison).

And yet RTO gets a ****storm of epic proportions with allegations that it's a scam and theft and predatory lending and what-not.

Well, it's a stupendously expensive option, for sure, but it's still better than ones that nobody's even commented on for months or years. And while I don't support RTO's offering - and emphatically so - I think all of this mess speaks more about the gregarious, viral-driven and short-memoried side of a photographer community whose opinions are so easily guided by a handful of influential yet occasionally irresponsible blogs, than it does about modern financing practices.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
Gaaaaa! DOH!! Oops!
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Nov 21, 2014 05:51 |  #41

Why waste your breath... your time? People are stupid. You can't do anything about that. You are asking the stupid sector to understand something they never will.

Why do you think Rent-to-Own businesses are so successful? There, a $1000 flat panel costs about a million when you do the math. Yet, they're flooded with business. And how about those Instant-Cash / Title Loan scams? Highly successful, too.

If stupid people won't listen (and they don't), they should be allowed to reap every bit of pain they incur upon themselves. THAT is the only way they will truly listen and learn. Once a stupid human puts his finger in a light socket, they learn never to do it again. And in the process, become an educated, enlightened human.

Edit: BTW - where's Helen O.? Is she no longer around? Did Adorama fire her? Does Adorama no longer care whether they gain a crappy reputation or not? Curious.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Nov 21, 2014 06:32 |  #42

Disregarding the stupid people, and talking about the company itself...

How do they get away with calling themselves "Cheaper than a credit card?"

Here's the math:
With RTO Camera a $500 purchase is paid off in 24 months with $43 monthly payments.

The same purchase on a credit card with a 10% interest rate is paid off in 13 months ($43 payments)*
With a 20% interest rate 13 months.
Even with a horrendous 50% interest rate, it's 16 months.

So how do these shysters get away with saying they are "cheaper than a credit card"

* source: http://www.bankrate.co​m …rd-payoff-calculator.aspx (external link)


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Thorrulz
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Nov 21, 2014 06:49 |  #43

Phoenixkh wrote in post #17283951 (external link)
Well,

That's 5 minutes I'll never get back. ;)

On the other hand, I had never heard of Nebraska Furniture Mart. I'm a pretty loyal Amazon customer. I've been with them since their start-up, when all they sold were books.

Nebraska Furniture Mart or NFM is a very well known and respected company here in the midwest. I'm on their preferred customer list and the interest free plans they offer the customers are always tempting. I don't know how many times I've had to resist the urge of buying the Nikon 200 f2 from them.


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My sister, the professional baker and cake decorator once told me that my camera takes great pics. My reply was that I thought her oven baked great cakes.:lol:

  
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groundloop
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Nov 21, 2014 07:56 |  #44

Where's the tie-in to Adorama or B&H

I've perused the B&H and Adorama web sites and couldn't find a link to that financing company. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but I'm not seeing any connection. Can you post a link?

And yes, that's an incredibly bad deal.




  
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moose10101
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Nov 21, 2014 10:51 |  #45

umphotography wrote in post #17284028 (external link)
I run a successful business and have done so for the past 6 yrs. I photographed 26 weddings this past year, 30 the year prior. 20 plus for the past 5 yrs orior and im booked out a year in advance until i moved this year. So I get the business dude. So get with the conversation and stop trying to impress me with your print comp Bull****. BTW I scored an 89,91,94 and best in class the last PPA comp I entered. I dont do print comps much. I only do them to see where i stand with my peirs every every other year. So I know very well what print comp prints are all about.

What is it about your business acumen that caused you to make a (still) undocumented claim about Adorama and B&H being involved with this leasing company? And why are you avoiding the question?




  
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