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Thread started 05 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 15:54
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DXO 7DmkII scores

 
David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 13, 2014 14:21 |  #61

DarthVader wrote in post #17267241 (external link)
Guarantee 7D III will have more AF points and slightly better DR hehehehehe.

:lol: Canon has been slowly steadily painting themselves into a corner. At some point they're going to be all out of things to upgrade besides the sensor.

The 5D IV should be interesting in that regard. Will they keep throwing cupholders at it? Will they, like 80's and 90's automakers, keep adding fluffy amenities, while failing to address quality concerns, and passing it off as an all-new product? Dual-pixel, GPS, even more AF points, all cool, all really nice, but it's just fluff. If their sensors don't take a significant step, then they'll be fatally rimrocked, while the competition keeps climbing up and up.


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idkdc
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Nov 13, 2014 14:25 |  #62

David Arbogast wrote in post #17269970 (external link)
:lol: Canon has been slowly steadily painting themselves into a corner. At some point they're going to be all out of things to upgrade besides the sensor.

The 5D IV should be interesting in that regard. Will they keep throwing cupholders at it? Will they, like 80's and 90's automakers, keep adding fluffy amenities, while failing to address quality concerns, and passing it off as an all-new product? Dual-pixel, GPS, even more AF points, all cool, all really nice, but it's just fluff. If their sensors don't take a significant step, then they'll be fatally rimrocked, while the competition keeps climbing up and up.

I really don't get why you would think the 5D IV wouldn't be a sensor upgrade. 5DII was a sensor upgrade, 5DIII autofocus and handling, 5DIV sensor. Not sure why this is so hard to fathom and why people would expect a new sensor technology in a birding camera like the 7DII for under $2000.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 13, 2014 16:11 |  #63

idkdc wrote in post #17269982 (external link)
I really don't get why you would think the 5D IV wouldn't be a sensor upgrade. 5DII was a sensor upgrade, 5DIII autofocus and handling, 5DIV sensor. Not sure why this is so hard to fathom and why people would expect a new sensor technology in a birding camera like the 7DII for under $2000.

I never said that the 5D IV definitely won't be a sensor upgrade. I said IF it isn't a sensor upgrade then... I did not say, that it WILL NOT be a sensor upgrade. I am hoping for a sensor upgrade, but not expecting it.

How can you draw a conclusion that Canon updates their sensors on every other 5D release? There have only been three releases! There isn't anything close to a track record or large sample size of historical data to draw that conclusion.

And the 7D II is a "birding" camera? Please. ;)


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idkdc
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Nov 13, 2014 16:19 |  #64

David Arbogast wrote in post #17270197 (external link)
I never said that the 5D IV definitely won't be a sensor upgrade...I am...not expecting [a sensor upgrade]."

Your words, not mine. We'll see in 2015. Canon has historically listened to what their customers want. 5DII wedding/event/photojou​rnalist shooters mostly wanted better autofocus, and Canon delivered more than expected on that front.

The D800 went the other route, Nikon went for the 5DII's original photographers in landscape/fashion, etc, without improving autofocus The companies basically just switched in their target audience. They'll prob switch again in 2015 and users will pony up money either way. Just a hunch here.

7DII is for sports and wildlife. Not sure how this is difficult to fathom. Landscape shooters like you who love to do HDR (Arbogast, your HDR's are the better kind) are not its target market. It's just product segmentation.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 13, 2014 17:02 |  #65

idkdc wrote in post #17270214 (external link)
Your words, not mine.

It's just my nature to hope for the best, but expect the worst. I genuinely hope for a major sensor upgrade in the 5D IV.

idkdc wrote in post #17270214 (external link)
7DII is for sports and wildlife. Not sure how this is difficult to fathom.

You nailed it. I struggle to "fathom" things. I do agree that the 7D II is, mainly, targeted for sports and wildlife. Previously you referred to it as just a "birding camera". But, I failed to fathom that you meant "birding camera" as a synonym for "sports and wildlife". In my denseness I took you literally. I'll leave this thread to the more intelligent and more informed. :o


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idkdc
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Nov 13, 2014 17:10 |  #66

David Arbogast wrote in post #17270314 (external link)
It's just my nature to hope for the best, but expect the worst. I genuinely hope for a major sensor upgrade in the 5D IV.

You nailed it. I struggle to "fathom" things. I do agree that the 7D II is, mainly, targeted for sports and wildlife. Previously you referred to it as just a "birding camera". But, I failed to fathom that you meant "birding camera" as a synonym for "sports and wildlife". In my denseness I took you literally. I'll leave this thread to the more intelligent and more informed. :o

Man, someone's testy.

http://www.logicallyfa​llacious.com …lacies/121-logic-chopping (external link)


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Nov 19, 2014 14:56 |  #67
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Nov 20, 2014 14:23 |  #68

Boy, I sure am glad I bought my 'birding' and 'sports' camera with the crappy sensor. I mean that sincerely. This camera knows more than I do right now, and it will be a challenge to be able to use this camera to it's fullest abilities.

But I Love being able to put the point of focus exactly where I want/need it!

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Nov 20, 2014 14:46 |  #69

Increase in ISO plus the improved AF makes for a good upgrade. Yes they made a very slight DR improvement but to a sport/wildlife shooter why would that matter?


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DarthVader
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Nov 21, 2014 21:27 |  #70

vipergts831 wrote in post #17283968 (external link)
Increase in ISO plus the improved AF makes for a good upgrade. Yes they made a very slight DR improvement but to a sport/wildlife shooter why would that matter?

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0.1 EV improvement after 5 years :).


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andrikos
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Nov 22, 2014 03:51 |  #71

DarthVader wrote in post #17286269 (external link)
0.1 EV improvement after 5 years :).

Yeah but that's logarithmic.
If you look at it linearly it's *almost* 1% improvement per year... ;)


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PNPhotography
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Nov 22, 2014 05:23 |  #72

DarthVader wrote in post #17286269 (external link)
0.1 EV improvement after 5 years :).

And only a slight increase in high ISO improvement.Heck even a Nikon 3200 spanks the 7dMKII at high ISO's.


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Shadowblade
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Nov 22, 2014 05:43 |  #73

canon rookie wrote in post #17286610 (external link)
And only a slight increase in high ISO improvement.Heck even a Nikon 3200 spanks the 7dMKII at high ISO's.

Depends what you're looking for at high ISO.

If you're just after minimal noise. Canon is possibly slightly better than the others.

If you want a decent amount of detail (i.e. DR and colour depth) along with your lack of noise, Canon falls short, except at the extreme ISOs where everyone has terrible output anyway.




  
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DarthVader
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Nov 22, 2014 05:50 |  #74

canon rookie wrote in post #17286610 (external link)
And only a slight increase in high ISO improvement.Heck even a Nikon 3200 spanks the 7dMKII at high ISO's.

Yep

http://www.dxomark.com …sus-Nikon-D3200___977_801 (external link)

Are you planning to become "nikon rookie" ? :).


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Shadowblade
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Nov 22, 2014 05:54 |  #75

idkdc wrote in post #17270214 (external link)
Your words, not mine. We'll see in 2015. Canon has historically listened to what their customers want. 5DII wedding/event/photojou​rnalist shooters mostly wanted better autofocus, and Canon delivered more than expected on that front.

The D800 went the other route, Nikon went for the 5DII's original photographers in landscape/fashion, etc, without improving autofocus The companies basically just switched in their target audience. They'll prob switch again in 2015 and users will pony up money either way. Just a hunch here.

The D800's AF is actually a fair bit better than the D700's AF.

That's also ignoring the fact that the D700 had the same AF as the D3 (the direct competitor to the 1D3) so the D800 didn't have nearly as far to improve...

7DII is for sports and wildlife. Not sure how this is difficult to fathom. Landscape shooters like you who love to do HDR (Arbogast, your HDR's are the better kind) are not its target market. It's just product segmentation.

If you're using HDR techniques, then the native DR of the camera barely matters.

The whole point of higher DR is so that you don't need to use HDR and can capture moving scenes, etc.




  
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