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Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
2n10
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Nov 26, 2014 13:27 |  #706

bigcountry wrote in post #17294248 (external link)
The camera arrived today, here is the service details:

Your product has been examined and upon close inspection the exact cause could not be identified but it was found that causing front focus after some time. Electrical adjustments were carried out on the af assembly. Product fuctions were confirmed.

Congrats on the return. Let us know on how it works.


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Methodical
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Nov 26, 2014 13:47 |  #707

bigcountry wrote in post #17294248 (external link)
The camera arrived today, here is the service details:

Your product has been examined and upon close inspection the exact cause could not be identified but it was found that causing front focus after some time. Electrical adjustments were carried out on the af assembly. Product fuctions were confirmed.

The pressure is on now. The whole world, well us 7D2ers, are waiting. waiting, waiting, waiting.:p

Hopefully, you are squared away. If so, Canon NJ may get swamped with new camera bodies.:lol:


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ptcanon3ti
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Nov 26, 2014 13:56 |  #708

Methodical wrote in post #17294602 (external link)
The pressure is on now. The whole world, well us 7D2ers, are waiting. waiting, waiting, waiting.:p

Hopefully, you are squared away. If so, Canon NJ may get swamped with new camera bodies.:lol:

lol...I'll have to drive up to see how it's going.


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digital ­ paradise
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Nov 26, 2014 14:18 |  #709

hollis_f wrote in post #17294497 (external link)
This is the standard service report for when they find nothing wrong. It means they put it on their test bench, ran the standard calibration (that is performed on all cameras at the factory), tested it and found it within specifications.

In other words - there was no detectable fault.

You are wrong. My 7D AF was back and front focusing intermittently. I verified that by comparing it first to Live view and then a series of tests on a wall target. I sent it in and they replied with that response. What else are they going to say? Admit to an actual problem? You know what that would cause? Look how long it took to finally admit to the 1D3.

When I got it back and posted shots on another site people replied I was posting the sharpest images they had seen and I had 5 great years with it. First cam I ever sent in for issues. Why would they say they were waiting for a tool if they were just going to give a canned answer?

I was not going to participate in this forum but I'm going to challenge you on that one. Mine is going to Canon tomorrow. Tests compared to my 5D3, with the same lens and settings was no contest.


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gschlact
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Nov 26, 2014 14:40 |  #710

Methodical wrote in post #17294404 (external link)
This part of the review caught my attention. I wander if this could be causing some of the AF issues (note: read the entire passage and not just the red portion).

An apparently undocumented attribute of the outer AF points (at least in single AF point mode) is that they all can use contrast information under the next AF point toward the center, causing the adjacent AF point to functionally appear as a focus assist-like point. When contrast becomes weak (or even non-existent) on a selected outer AF point and the next point down/up (for top/bottom AF points) or left/right (for right/left AF points) has good contrast, the 7D II will auto focus using the position of that particular assist point. Here is a pair of examples:

Canon EOS 7D Mark II Outer AF Point Attribute

No Contrast | Low Contrast

I created a white canvas in Photoshop and then created two vertical bars spaced to fall under the rightmost AF point and the next point to the left. The camera is unable to focus on the white canvas (no contrast available), but can easily lock focus onto the black bars. I then reduced the opacity of the right bar until the stronger-contrasting bar under the adjacent focus point took over the camera's attention. The 7D II was tripod-mounted and positioned at an angle to the display to better discern the camera's selected point of focus. Shown in the examples is a screen capture from DPP showing the selected AF point and the area where the LCD display's pixels are most in-focus. The bar under the right-most AF point is still visible in the "Low Contrast" example, but the camera focuses similarly on the strongly contrasting bar to the left.

Corner AF points (including the corner points in the slightly enlarged center section of AF points) utilize contrast information under the two adjacent points.

Whether the outer AF points are simply larger than the point indicator or the adjacent AF point is actually being used, I cannot say. Whether this feature is beneficial or problematic is dependent on the situation you are shooting in. It was somewhat problematic in the horse example I've been showing as the bouncing ears and mane did get the 7D II's attention sometimes. The 5D Mark III's AF system does not exhibit this behavior, but the 5D III's outer AF points are farther from the borders than even some of the 7D II's next-to-outer AF points...

Methodical-
This is a GREAT and CRUCIAL piece of information about the 7D ii AF!!!! What is the source (beyond the proof PS sample you created?)

I didn't see the image link for the example you created in PS.??? I am curious whether DPP indicated the outer or the assist point as the active focus point? My guess is the outer point is indicated as active which would drive most crazy. (this is my segway to the following...)

Lastly, WHERE in the menus does Canon provide the ability to turn off this automatic behavior of Use-AF-assist-point-with-outer-or-top-focus-points? This option MUST BE PROVIDED. The photographer must know that he is not getting focus where he intended!!!

Thanks again!!!

Guy
( gschlact )




  
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i-G12
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Nov 26, 2014 14:42 |  #711

lozw wrote in post #17294309 (external link)
As every 7DMKII camera has the same firmware as every other one, then if the firmware is a problem then how come not every 7DMKII has focus problems?

It was/is the same with the 70D. I have the same camera, with the same firmware, and same lenses, as those reporting focus problem with their 70D. But I don't have a problem at all - so not sure what firmware update is required to fix their 'problem' when I don't have the problem with exactly the same firmware they have.

In the 70D case it seemed more to be an issue with misaligned AF sensors that was causing the problem - and the only fix for that is to adjust it or replace it.

It is very disappointing people had these problems with the 70D and now similar problems are arising with the 7DMKII.

It sound more like Canon need to improve their QC - especially with a pro-oriented 7DMKII

Great post.

70D > 7D Mark II .... Déjà vu




  
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bigcountry
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Nov 26, 2014 15:45 |  #712

it seems better, but i honestly have not had time to test it other than random stuff around the house.

family came in for the holidays + delivering images and albums to clients before tomorrow has me bogged down.


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Kickflipkid687
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Nov 26, 2014 17:04 |  #713

bigcountry wrote in post #17294813 (external link)
it seems better, but i honestly have not had time to test it other than random stuff around the house.

family came in for the holidays + delivering images and albums to clients before tomorrow has me bogged down.

Thanks for the reply. Hopefully all is well. If not, that will be very disappointing.


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magicmikey
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Nov 26, 2014 17:12 |  #714

This is from the review at the-digital-picture.com:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com …Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II.aspx (external link)

It's a very thorough review.

gschlact wrote in post #17294714 (external link)
Methodical-
This is a GREAT and CRUCIAL piece of information about the 7D ii AF!!!! What is the source (beyond the proof PS sample you created?)

I didn't see the image link for the example you created in PS.??? I am curious whether DPP indicated the outer or the assist point as the active focus point? My guess is the outer point is indicated as active which would drive most crazy. (this is my segway to the following...)

Lastly, WHERE in the menus does Canon provide the ability to turn off this automatic behavior of Use-AF-assist-point-with-outer-or-top-focus-points? This option MUST BE PROVIDED. The photographer must know that he is not getting focus where he intended!!!

Thanks again!!!

Guy
( gschlact )




  
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moltengold
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Nov 26, 2014 17:27 |  #715

magicmikey wrote in post #17294924 (external link)
This is from the review at the-digital-picture.com:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com …Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II.aspx (external link)

It's a very thorough review.

Thanks for the site
the two photo samples in the page of that site seems not clear and dark !


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bigcountry
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Nov 26, 2014 17:43 |  #716

Thanks for the response Hollis, although many of your posts, including this one make it hard for me to take you seriously.


hollis_f wrote in post #17294497 (external link)
This is the standard service report for when they find nothing wrong. It means they put it on their test bench, ran the standard calibration (that is performed on all cameras at the factory), tested it and found it within specifications.

In other words - there was no detectable fault.


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drdiesel1
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Nov 26, 2014 23:31 |  #717

My 7DMKII and 100F/2.8L-IS Macro came yesterday. I had to run the micro focus adjustment
back -17 ticks to get it to zero @ F2.8 I was worried it was gonna run out of adjustment :cool:

So far, I'm happy with it. It's my first APS-C sensor body ;)


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Vance1
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Nov 27, 2014 06:29 |  #718

bigcountry wrote in post #17294982 (external link)
Thanks for the response Hollis, although many of your posts, including this one make it hard for me to take you seriously.

That is a typical Canon generic repair note. This is usually what you will receive whether adjustments were made or not.

You most certainly are correct in sending your camera back. I am having a similar problem with mine in AI Servo.

Good luck




  
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Nov 27, 2014 09:19 |  #719

Here are a couple from the weekend. While it did get some very sharp shots, I also got a lot of "almost" sharp shots. These 2 are back to back shots. I shot jpeg in Ai Servo H. Focus was expansion. I noticed quite a bit of shots like this. One will be razor sharp, then the next few just a hair off. Never saw that when I had a 5d3. Also - do you notice a tad change in exposure/colors?

7d2 w/ 70-200 II plus 1.4x. Shot in JPG 1/3200 SS Evauluative
The first image is sharp looking in LR4 with 1:1. DPP shows focus block just under her chin at upper chest (nike swoosh in lower L corner of focus box)

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7571/15890810672_b0b11037aa_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/qddy​om  (external link) 7P7A0067 (external link) by smphelps5 (external link), on Flickr"]
(DUPLICATE IMAGE)
 (external link)7P7A0067 (external link) by smphelps5, on Flickr (external link)


This image is just a little of LR4 1:1 DPP shows focus block just under her chin at upper chest (nike swoosh in lower/center L corner of focus box)

IMAGE: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8665/15889479771_dc476a0aea_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/qd6J​KM  (external link) 7P7A0068 (external link) by smphelps5 (external link), on Flickr"]
(DUPLICATE IMAGE)
 (external link)7P7A0068 (external link) by smphelps5, on Flickr (external link)

Steve

  
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2n10
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Nov 27, 2014 09:35 |  #720

Both look good at this size. I have noticed at 1:1 a slight variance in sharpness also with mine and the 7D before it. I see the slight exposure difference also. The exposure difference is greatly diminished from the 7D.

You need to remember that APS-c cameras have much less tolerance for movement at long lengths due to the pixel density. Also due to less light entering I suspect they are also more prone to exposure shifts.


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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions
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