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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 28 Nov 2014 (Friday) 21:15
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jhayesvw
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Nov 29, 2014 12:03 as a reply to  @ post 17299508 |  #16

digital paradise wrote in post #17299392 (external link)
I base that last bit on my 5D3. Within an hour I was nailing shots with very little effort and my keeper rate is about 95% since 2012. The AF system is identical and I understand that you need to be more careful due to the sensor size and how many pixels they packed on the 7D2. I had a 7D for 5 years.

Im pretty sure the AF system is not exactly the same in the 7d2.
It has more focus points and they are likely spaced differently than the 5d3.

Either way, there are always a few cameras that make it through assembly that arent quite right. Maybe hand the camera to someone else to see if they have the same issue??



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magicmikey
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Nov 29, 2014 12:07 |  #17

digital paradise wrote in post #17299392 (external link)
I base that last bit on my 5D3. Within an hour I was nailing shots with very little effort and my keeper rate is about 95% since 2012. The AF system is identical and I understand that you need to be more careful due to the sensor size and how many pixels they packed on the 7D2. I had a 7D for 5 years.

Similar systems but not exactly the same. Check this information from Chuck Westfall:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com …5D-III-AF-Comparison.aspx (external link)




  
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Nov 29, 2014 12:12 |  #18

Agreed - Not exactly but it should not be that difficult in centre point if you test them back to back. The case numbers are identical and there may be a few refinements we can't see but Case 1 should be more than adequate for most AI Servo situations. Like I pointed out in another thread, a member pulled it out of the box, put the lens on and shot a soccer game.


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jhayesvw
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Nov 29, 2014 12:25 |  #19

I agree. It should function very much like a 1dx or 5d3 AF. Heck in single point mode it should be no different to use than any other camera.

However, a 20MP sensor of that size (crop) is going to look odd if viewed at 100%. if its 50% or so smaller than a full frame 22MP 5d3 then viewing at 100% is crazy. Thats like Hollis said. You cant view a 8ft poster from 20 inches away and expect it to look sharp. It just doesn't work like that.

We have all been through this as NIkon and Canon keep bumping up their MP.
However, focus should be pretty consistent if the user does their job. Over 65% is pretty good with action/motion stuff.

For static, there is very little reason to have below 90% keeper rate.
I have an original 7d and my keeper rate is very high (near 100%) for still photos and probably about 70% for sports. Its much lower for birds in flight as they are FAST and small. Meh, Im still learning.

The cool thing is that anyone who feels their body is not functioning properly can send it into canon and get a real checkup on it. Just pay shipping there. I think they pay return shipping.



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Nov 29, 2014 12:46 |  #20

I would never compare a crop to a FF. Apples to oranges. I was just making sure my technique was correct when I went out. I was out one last time and had a bit of sun. Took hundreds of shots and then it clouded over and starter snowing. I decided to go for brook and went 13+. I went home and viewed the first half and I shipped it to NJ. A few days later I started going threw them all a few days later and looked closely at this series at +13. All 8 in the series are alike.

This is bang on and I can work with this. I never would have expected that amount of MFA would be needed. A first for me. My question what will +13 do to my 8 foot 200mm shots that are tack sharp? This is why I am confident in sending to Canon. They can fix it.

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Nov 29, 2014 13:17 |  #21

While I completely understand not wanting to have to dial in that much adjustment, it's nice to know that the camera apparently isn't really defective. It might need the focus adjusted. Just out of curiosity, did you try it with other lenses? As has been well documented by Lens Rental, a camera can be in tolerance but have trouble with a specific lens if they both back focus slightly.




  
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Nov 29, 2014 16:17 |  #22

I never thought the camera was defective. If it was no one would be able to take those great images. I was always under the assumption that it got out of spec during manufacturing.

I tried my trusty 300L F4 IS first and it was the same. I have used that lens starting the 30 and 40D that had no MFA and my 50 and 7D and I did not MFA and I can show you tack sharp images from all those cameras. Of course F4 is not razor thin DOF. I sent my 70-200 II to new jersey about a year ago because it was just not right so the shot above was taken with a factory calibrated lens. Actually Dot Tune confirmed it was off but I kept getting difference results. My shooting partner tried it and thought so as well so I decided to send it in. First lens in my collection that ever needed a factory tune up.

That same day when I got the upper shot I took a series of shots (no MFA) of planes with my 5D3 and the 70-200 and they were all bang on. So two trusted lenses were doing the same thing on my 7D2.

I have read the lens rental document and almost every link and article posted. I understand that there is variation in the manufacturing that has upper and lower specs and the lens one be at one end and the cam at the other. Because our company got into a total quality initiative we learned about statistical process control in manufacturing. It was pretty interesting.

I don't really have a wide enough house to do MFA tests at correct distances and it os -25 Celsius out there. I have Focus Tune and just ordered the MKII target with the new ruler which I'll try it out.

To me 13 MFA is not a tweak. That is just plain out. Actually a member here - big country got his back from Canon a few days and just posted shots at Fred Miranda. They looked good. I'm not sure he has done that here yet. I did not check.

My error was I should have thought of this earlier but I never expected that much MFA was needed. Like I said a first for me. Indoor shots were right on but other commitments and with bad weather there was a as much time to test in the field as I would have liked. I was trying to rule out user error first and finally concluded it couldn't be me. Either way that cam was going to Canon.


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Nov 29, 2014 17:18 |  #23

digital paradise wrote in post #17299963 (external link)
I never thought the camera was defective. If it was no one would be able to take those great images. I was always under the assumption that it got out of spec during manufacturing.

I tried my trusty 300L F4 IS first and it was the same. I have used that lens starting the 30 and 40D that had no MFA and my 50 and 7D and I did not MFA and I can show you tack sharp images from all those cameras. Of course F4 is not razor thin DOF. I sent my 70-200 II to new jersey about a year ago because it was just not right so the shot above was taken with a factory calibrated lens. Actually Dot Tune confirmed it was off but I kept getting difference results. My shooting partner tried it and thought so as well so I decided to send it in. First lens in my collection that ever needed a factory tune up.

That same day when I got the upper shot I took a series of shots (no MFA) of planes with my 5D3 and the 70-200 and they were all bang on. So two trusted lenses were doing the same thing on my 7D2.

I have read the lens rental document and almost every link and article posted. I understand that there is variation in the manufacturing that has upper and lower specs and the lens one be at one end and the cam at the other. Because our company got into a total quality initiative we learned about statistical process control in manufacturing. It was pretty interesting.

I don't really have a wide enough house to do MFA tests at correct distances and it os -25 Celsius out there. I have Focus Tune and just ordered the MKII target with the new ruler which I'll try it out.

To me 13 MFA is not a tweak. That is just plain out. Actually a member here - big country got his back from Canon a few days and just posted shots at Fred Miranda. They looked good. I'm not sure he has done that here yet. I did not check.

My error was I should have thought of this earlier but I never expected that much MFA was needed. Like I said a first for me. Indoor shots were right on but other commitments and with bad weather there was a as much time to test in the field as I would have liked. I was trying to rule out user error first and finally concluded it couldn't be me. Either way that cam was going to Canon.


It sounds like I am newer to this than you but we have similar results.
I am a 2x5D3 shooter for weddings with all the L glass that wedding people use.
I started a thread earlier because I got the 7D2 and then decided to actually do a Dot Tune test - and that is when I found out that nearly all my lenses were forward focused (according to this method) but I never really noticed it with the 5d - except I wasn't completely happy with my 85 1.2 at 1.2. So, I found out, that according to Dot Tune, all my lenses were at least +4 and a few were +8 to +10. I then read that type of light mattered and maybe it was all a Tungsten thing.

All the above said, and lets remove the AI Servo issues for now, I think I have concluded that what we are all talking about is an AI Servo speed of adjustment issue revealing that the DofF is smaller on the smaller 1.6x sensor and then that has revealed that in certain types of light, a bunch of L lens are by spec front focused.

I have now dialled into both my 5D3s and 7D2 MFA of +4 to +8 for every single lens and even +10 on a few - and everything on all cameras and all lens is tack sharp - but yes I don't nail all frames using AI Servo in a 20 frame sequence as I think Intel needs to up the CPU speed another 100 fold for that to happen - or I have to stop using a razor thin DoF on a fast and erratic moving subject.


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2n10
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Nov 29, 2014 17:37 |  #24

digital paradise wrote in post #17299670 (external link)
I would never compare a crop to a FF. Apples to oranges. I was just making sure my technique was correct when I went out. I was out one last time and had a bit of sun. Took hundreds of shots and then it clouded over and starter snowing. I decided to go for brook and went 13+. I went home and viewed the first half and I shipped it to NJ. A few days later I started going threw them all a few days later and looked closely at this series at +13. All 8 in the series are alike.

This is bang on and I can work with this. I never would have expected that amount of MFA would be needed. A first for me. My question what will +13 do to my 8 foot 200mm shots that are tack sharp? This is why I am confident in sending to Canon. They can fix it.

It should do nothing unless there is something wrong with the AF unit.


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Nov 29, 2014 17:49 |  #25

2n10 wrote in post #17300112 (external link)
It should do nothing unless there is something wrong with the AF unit.

If that is so then why do they recommend 50X which at 200mm is 33 feet? Why can't I MFA at 12 feet and have it work correctly at greater distances? This is something I have been curious about.


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2n10
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Nov 29, 2014 20:01 |  #26

Great question on the recommended distance. I have MFAd lenses at shorter distances with excellent results.


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Nov 29, 2014 22:22 |  #27

hollis_f wrote in post #17299099 (external link)
Several people had problems with their new 7D. However, once you eliminated those who hadn't read (or understood) the manual; and those who thought that printing their image 5 foot wide and examining it with a magnifying glass was a good way to check IQ; and those who thought that a black cat, at night, in a cave, 50m away, was a suitable test subject; then there weren't many cases left. Some of these sent their cameras off to Canon who never, ever, recognised a common problem. Indeed most just had the AF recalibrated.

Then exactly the same happened with the 70D.

And the 7D MkII.

I hope this happens fairly often. That just means that I might be able to get a great discount on a refurb from the Canon Loyalty program like I did with my original 7D. Oh Yea! ;) Keep them coming...


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Nov 30, 2014 00:12 |  #28

YES!....keeper rate with the 5d III vs my 7d went through the roof . Shot a dance comp a few months back and out of 350 plus images I missed focus on maybe 4 shots.




  
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Nov 30, 2014 00:18 |  #29

digital paradise wrote in post #17300133 (external link)
If that is so then why do they recommend 50X which at 200mm is 33 feet? Why can't I MFA at 12 feet and have it work correctly at greater distances? This is something I have been curious about.

You know, I've been curious about this, too. I have wildly varying results when MFA'ing at shorter distances, but have always had great results using that 50x number...which isn't easy for the 100-400 :)


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Nov 30, 2014 00:42 |  #30

Snydremark wrote in post #17300678 (external link)
You know, I've been curious about this, too. I have wildly varying results when MFA'ing at shorter distances, but have always had great results using that 50x number...which isn't easy for the 100-400 :)

Probably that is why they recommend it. It is not easy with my 200. I wonder what those people with a 500mm lens and a 1.4 TC do? 115 feet. I don't think my lot is that deep and I'd have to move the garage over.

Hey lady. Sorry about the the tripod in the back lane. Can you go the other way today? I guess I better stop saving for one :D

I know Lens Align and a few others recommend a minimum of 25X. Not sure what Focal recommends.


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