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FORUMS General Gear Talk Data Storage, Memory Cards & Backup 
Thread started 01 Dec 2014 (Monday) 15:21
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Best photo backup solution (hardware + software)

 
Charlie
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Dec 02, 2014 19:37 |  #16

I'm not diligent in backing up raws, however I do backup processed JPG's often. I have a certain setup that I use to organize my folder structure, and it works out well. it's house on a NAS and transfered as soon as I process images. I run a backup job that does FTP to my mom's NAS, which is the exact same configuration. it works very well. I also have a local backup on a pair of USB drives.

My stuff is safe.


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LARAB
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Dec 03, 2014 00:05 as a reply to  @ post 17306263 |  #17

Great to have the recommendation for the EVO 840's - they were on top of my short list. Thanks! -Brian




  
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DetlevCM
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Dec 03, 2014 01:19 |  #18

bikfoto wrote in post #17306263 (external link)
SSD's are becoming dirt cheap these days. They used to be $1 per Gb, but now I've seen them as low as $0.40. As for the type, I'd go with Samsung EVO 840's - no brainer for me. I've put them into 2 desktops I've built, my old windows laptop, and my current windows desktop. They are workhorses that just work. I wouldn't overspend on the Samsung Pro's though, as I haven't seen a great performance boost out of them.

That still makes the SSD about 10 times as expensive as a harddrive. (0.04€ per GB in Germany - or even less for hard drives)

We also don't yet have long term storage experience with SSDs.
(HDDs will last at least 15 years - so if you cop Then across every 10 years you'll is well.)
We also do not have experience with data recovery in SSDs, in contrast to HDDs.


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Dec 03, 2014 01:59 |  #19

Even if you're backing up locally/manually on a NAS or external hard drive, it's just too easy to backup to the cloud now not to use it, assuming you don't have bandwidth cap issues with your ISP.

Microsoft is offering unlimited cloud storage for $6.99/mo (also comes with an MS Office) and Amazon is offering unlimited cloud storage for free for Prime users. Always good to have that easy to access, offsite backup.




  
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DetlevCM
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Dec 03, 2014 03:42 |  #20

Vcize wrote in post #17307442 (external link)
Even if you're backing up locally/manually on a NAS or external hard drive, it's just too easy to backup to the cloud now not to use it, assuming you don't have bandwidth cap issues with your ISP.

Microsoft is offering unlimited cloud storage for $6.99/mo (also comes with an MS Office) and Amazon is offering unlimited cloud storage for free for Prime users. Always good to have that easy to access, offsite backup.


And for the same amount of money you can buy one 3TB harddrive per year.
You won't be spied upon, you get a better data transfer rate.
Heck, the postal service in England with all its problems would be faster than UK ISPs...
(45KB/s up, absolute maximum of 500KB/s down...)

Incidentally, there is zero need to waste money on Amazon Prime in the UK - shipping is free anyway.
And even if you do pay for postage, you can pay for at least 20 deliveries with first class UK postal service delivery before you'd save money - except that large items where shipping is expensive come with free shipping anyway...

Edit:

Just some back of the envelope calculations on how stupid "cloud backup" is:

Assuming 1TB of data with a 45KB/s upload:

1TB x 1024GB/TB x 1024MB/GB x 1024KB/MB = 1073741824KB

1073741824KB / 45KB/s /60s/min / 60min/h / 24h/day = 276 days

-> obviously, double the upload, half the time, BUT 1TB is a rather small and conservative amount of data too. (I am using 2.2TB on my server and I don't have that much data.)
-> then the calculation above assumes continuous transfer, so no interruptions between files (may be short, but they add up), no aborted uploads, no cutouts from the ISP.


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Dec 03, 2014 10:33 |  #21

Cloud backup is not stupid if you have decent bandwidth. I have over a terabyte on Crashplan, spread across several machines. The part of the equation you're leaving out is that its automatic, off-site, and keeps a much deeper version history than anyone but the most hardcore storage admin is going to do at home.




  
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axsys
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Dec 03, 2014 11:50 |  #22

I have two Western Digital 1TB drives (WD10EZEX, the largest single-platter drives WD makes) running in a software mirror on my home theater server. I store all my RAW files here, then copy them to my primary desktop with an SSD for editing, then copy the finals back to the server. On top of all that, they get backed up to an external drive once a month. This way if my desktop crashes, the only thing I would lose is whatever editing I'm currently working on.




  
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Vcize
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Dec 03, 2014 12:18 |  #23

DetlevCM wrote in post #17307508 (external link)
And for the same amount of money you can buy one 3TB harddrive per year.
You won't be spied upon, you get a better data transfer rate.
Heck, the postal service in England with all its problems would be faster than UK ISPs...
(45KB/s up, absolute maximum of 500KB/s down...)

Incidentally, there is zero need to waste money on Amazon Prime in the UK - shipping is free anyway.
And even if you do pay for postage, you can pay for at least 20 deliveries with first class UK postal service delivery before you'd save money - except that large items where shipping is expensive come with free shipping anyway...

Edit:

Just some back of the envelope calculations on how stupid "cloud backup" is:

Assuming 1TB of data with a 45KB/s upload:

1TB x 1024GB/TB x 1024MB/GB x 1024KB/MB = 1073741824KB

1073741824KB / 45KB/s /60s/min / 60min/h / 24h/day = 276 days

-> obviously, double the upload, half the time, BUT 1TB is a rather small and conservative amount of data too. (I am using 2.2TB on my server and I don't have that much data.)
-> then the calculation above assumes continuous transfer, so no interruptions between files (may be short, but they add up), no aborted uploads, no cutouts from the ISP.

Everyone's situation is different, and I can't really speak for the UK, but I would imagine most people get far more than 45kb/s up on their connection.

External hard drives are great, but they're vulnerable even if you're using multiples. If they're in your home, they're vulnerable to fire or theft, meaning you could very easily lose EVERYTHING.

You can keep them offsite in a safety deposit box or the like, but it's a pain to drive to the bank, retrieve the drive, upload your changes, and drive back to the bank any time you want to update your offsite backup. How often are you really going to do that? That means your offsite backup, if you even have one, is going to typically be months behind meaning, again, if something happens at home you're losing a lot of data.

As to Amazon Prime, again I can't speak to the UK but in the US shipping is only free on Amazon for orders over $25, and even in that case it's slow. Prime gets you 2-day delivery, and I order a LOT more than 20 things per year off Amazon. It also gets you Amazon's free streaming service, which is basically the same as Netflix and saves you $8/mo there. And of course, the infinite storage for your photos on top of that.

As has previously been mentioned, cloud services also offer other advantages like easy auto-syncing and extensive version history. If you forget to backup it doesn't matter, because it was done (and synced, and versioned) automatically.

Personally, I have a file server running Raid-5 AND use cloud backup. With as cheap as cloud storage is now, it's just stupid not to. I know several local photographer's with extensive onsite Raid backup solutions that have lost important data. It's almost impossible to lose anything with your local server or external drive being also backed up to the cloud with years worth of versioning attached to it automatically.

Then again, if you're one of those nutjobs that thinks Microsoft or Amazon is spending their evenings combing through your raw files for naked pictures of your wife, I can't help you.




  
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Post edited over 6 years ago by DetlevCM.
     
Dec 03, 2014 13:19 |  #24

Vcize wrote in post #17308585 (external link)
Everyone's situation is different, and I can't really speak for the UK, but I would imagine most people get far more than 45kb/s up on their connection.

External hard drives are great, but they're vulnerable even if you're using multiples. If they're in your home, they're vulnerable to fire or theft, meaning you could very easily lose EVERYTHING.

You can keep them offsite in a safety deposit box or the like, but it's a pain to drive to the bank, retrieve the drive, upload your changes, and drive back to the bank any time you want to update your offsite backup. How often are you really going to do that? That means your offsite backup, if you even have one, is going to typically be months behind meaning, again, if something happens at home you're losing a lot of data.

As to Amazon Prime, again I can't speak to the UK but in the US shipping is only free on Amazon for orders over $25, and even in that case it's slow. Prime gets you 2-day delivery, and I order a LOT more than 20 things per year off Amazon. It also gets you Amazon's free streaming service, which is basically the same as Netflix and saves you $8/mo there. And of course, the infinite storage for your photos on top of that.

As has previously been mentioned, cloud services also offer other advantages like easy auto-syncing and extensive version history. If you forget to backup it doesn't matter, because it was done (and synced, and versioned) automatically.

Personally, I have a file server running Raid-5 AND use cloud backup. With as cheap as cloud storage is now, it's just stupid not to. I know several local photographer's with extensive onsite Raid backup solutions that have lost important data. It's almost impossible to lose anything with your local server or external drive being also backed up to the cloud with years worth of versioning attached to it automatically.

Then again, if you're one of those nutjobs that thinks Microsoft or Amazon is spending their evenings combing through your raw files for naked pictures of your wife, I can't help you.

If you are lucky you get 80KB/s upload...
If you are a business (e.g. university) you get better speeds.

Fire and theft are true - although a whole server is less likely to be stolen than a portable hard drive. Also, you can lock away harddrives.
Fire isn't such a big issue in Europe - and if there is a fire, your data is going to be your least worry and even then, unless they get hit with the brunt of the fire, the actual disks in harddrives may very well survive.

Amazon Prime is a ripoff disguised as a benefit - 79 pounds per year...
Video: You need the time for it - plus, it requires you to watch more than 10 films per year. -> In fact, this would only make sense if you want to watch a lot of video. (Though then you have the mediocre UK infrastructure - read internet access - to deal with...)

Shipping does have a minimum nowadays I think - it used to be 5 pounds, then it was everything, maybe it is 10 now.
As to shipping times, in reality is makes little difference whether you pay extra or not - except that one is free while the other is not. Plus, most sellers on the marketplace offer free shipping too when Amazon may not (even on items that cost pence).
Incidentally, you say 2 day shipping - Royal Mail aims to deliver in 2-3 days 2nd Class (yes, UK mail systems have some aspects that are a bit backwards...). Amazon's own courier service takes 1-2 days and Royal Mail First Class is also 1-2 days, though I had second class delivered next day too. In Germany Deutsche Post ships within 24 hours - incidentally, it only takes 2 days to ship from Germany to the UK (regular parcel).
So if you think 2 days is something special, your mail service isn't doing its job very well compared to Europe.
In fact, I find 2 days irritating and expect delivery the day after it is posted (in national mail).

I.e. "Prime" is a waste of money except if you are really that keen on the streaming part.

As to RAID: RAID 6 would be better than 5 -> redundancy against two file servers.

As to spying:
They just have NO BUSINESS doing so.
(PS: No embarrassing photos in my collection - still they have ZERO business looking at any of my files without consent.)
Privacy might be irrelevant to "you" in the US, but we had some rather bad experience with data collection in Europe in the last 200 years - from Metternich, to the Dutch data abused by the "German Regime 1933-1945" (their name gets filtered...) to the data collection by the Stasi.
Heck, far more recently there has been the blacklisting in the UK - I believe of builders or tradespeople who joined unions or something like that...

Incidentally, it isn't necessarily embarrassing photos that will cause the most harm - it is the accusation levied at a person:
You have a photo from Cuba? You are a communist spy.
A photo of your friend at a union/political party meeting? Then by association you must sympathise with the same views.

There is more to data than meets the eye - heck, I shouldn't really buy anything from Amazon, but well, I still do. But I buy a lot elsewhere too.


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Dec 03, 2014 13:30 |  #25

My setup is probably a bit more paranoid than most.

I have a RAID 5 array on my main machine that is my primary storage and workspace.

This is mirrored to a RAID 5 array on my old machine, since passed down to my wife.

I have several external drives that I keep at work and bring home to update about every 2-3 weeks. Depending on my workflow or paranoia there may be multiple copies of stuff on those.

I also have Crashplan running backups of the whole deal.

To DetLev's comment above, my system is currently at about 3.5 TB (OS, software and images) which still has about 80 days left on the initial backup with Crashplan. I started about 4 months ago... ;-)a

Once I'm backed up, though, I should be able to stay current +/- a day or so.


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Dec 03, 2014 13:45 |  #26

I have a G-Technology G-Dock EV with 2 1TB hard drives, one for JPEG, one for RAW that I dump photos onto after shooting. Then weekly I'll copy each hard drive onto a Synology 1813+ running 8 3TB WD Red's in a SHR-2 setup. Also copy JPEGs to Crash plan.


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Dec 03, 2014 14:29 |  #27

DetlevCM wrote in post #17308824 (external link)
Incidentally, you say 2 day shipping - Royal Mail aims to deliver in 2-3 days 2nd Class (yes, UK mail systems have some aspects that are a bit backwards...). Amazon's own courier service takes 1-2 days and Royal Mail First Class is also 1-2 days, though I had second class delivered next day too. In Germany Deutsche Post ships within 24 hours - incidentally, it only takes 2 days to ship from Germany to the UK (regular parcel).
So if you think 2 days is something special, your mail service isn't doing its job very well compared to Europe.
In fact, I find 2 days irritating and expect delivery the day after it is posted (in national mail).

I.e. "Prime" is a waste of money except if you are really that keen on the streaming part.

Actually, Prime shipping is a benefit in the US. An item could come from a warehouse on other side of the country and spend days on a truck, being handed from UPS/FedEx to USPS for final delivery.

And I am keen on the streaming video, especially since I don't have cable TV and I have a 3 year old.




  
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Dec 03, 2014 15:45 |  #28

mike_d wrote in post #17309029 (external link)
Actually, Prime shipping is a benefit in the US. An item could come from a warehouse on other side of the country and spend days on a truck, being handed from UPS/FedEx to USPS for final delivery.

And I am keen on the streaming video, especially since I don't have cable TV and I have a 3 year old.

I guess if you have someone to consume a lot of video there is use in it for you.

As to shipping: One end of a European country to another end is normally 1 day - seldom 2.
So I guess the US postal service needs to improve? :)
(I had a DHL Express shipment - my G7 X back in October - leave Hong Kong on a Saturday and reach me in the UK on a Monday - that's service!)


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Dec 03, 2014 15:49 as a reply to  @ DetlevCM's post |  #29

Yes, the US Postal Service does indeed need many improvements. But they also potentially cover a much larger distance then mail between countries in Europe :)
Amazon Prime is very much worth it, at least here in the US for multiple reasons, but to be back on topic, its definitely NOT the best option for a cloud based backup.




  
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Dec 03, 2014 20:16 |  #30

I'm pretty sure cloud storage is encrypted and while 'they' could probably crack that, I'm not concerned that 'they' will be interested in my photos anytime soon. I also order online, do online banking, and so on.

Prime in the US is well worth it, in Germany I can get anything I order from Amazon the next day. I can also put 3 Germanys into California and still drive around it..... With Prime I get things from NY shipped some 3000 miles to my house in two days.

I had prime in Germany too for some deal but cancelled it afterwards, not worth it there, I'd agree.


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Best photo backup solution (hardware + software)
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