Initial thoughts on AMASS per one POTN member

My initial reaction is, I don't like the change at all!


I'm sorry but the website is now entirely too busy (clutter) in addition to being very bland overall with the colors, etc. It was OK before but now it is absolutely terrible. Look at FM or Digital Grin for comparison...


1) The forum/thread fonts are now hard on the eyes. They're to small and the Script lettering makes it somewhat tedious in searching for threads. It's not practical for a forum that now has seemingly endless categories.

2) V-Bulletin is quite common and has a natural flow to it; for me, this site no longer has that...

3) I don't like having to click on a POTN members name just to get the number of posts they've had. Please put their posting # back under their name for quick reference. Knowing who I am dealing with is important and it's now time consuming to have to open a new window just to find out.

4) The "Gear Review" section is unnecessary, a poor idea IMHO, and only adds clutter to the website.

a) First, why do you want a Camera, Lens and Flash review section when you already have numerous Camera, Lens, and Flash Categories? Those could have been made into a sticky for each respective Category.

b) Second, I don't put a lot of credence in "reviews" by single and unknown POTN members. I reserve single person "reviews" to people such as Brian at Digital Picture who has a website dedicated for that and who does such professionally.

If I want to know the reputation of a Canon 50d on POTN I just perform a Search and then find the pertinent threads. I can then get the personal input by dozens or even hundreds of POTN members in regards. There is no better review process than that, btw.

5) You've created Categories for other Camera and Lens manufacturers but Flash & Studio Lighting is under "General Gear Talk". Am I'm now going to have to weed through the Nikon, Sony and other Manufacturers gear in order to read what is relevant for my Canon gear?

Summary: You've attempted to be all encompassing but such has just created a lot of clutter and confusion. I joined POTN because it was dedicated to Canon users. This kept things simple and consequently enjoyable. Some good features have now been added but those are lost in the jungle of Categories and tedious nature of the site.


God Bless,
Ralph

Ralph III wrote in post #17303945
3) I don't like having to click on a POTN members name just to get the number of posts they've had. Please put their posting # back under their name for quick reference. Knowing who I am dealing with is important and it's now time consuming to have to open a new window just to find out.

I believe this has been changed now.

Ralph III wrote in post #17303945
4) The "Gear Review" section is unnecessary, a poor idea IMHO, and only adds clutter to the website.

a) First, why do you want a Camera, Lens and Flash review section when you already have numerous Camera, Lens, and Flash Categories? Those could have been made into a sticky for each respective Category.

b) Second, I don't put a lot of credence in "reviews" by single and unknown POTN members. I reserve single person "reviews" to people such as Brian at Digital Picture who has a website dedicated for that and who does such professionally.

If I want to know the reputation of a Canon 50d on POTN I just perform a Search and then find the pertinent threads. I can then get the personal input by dozens or even hundreds of POTN members in regards. There is no better review process than that, btw.

5) You've created Categories for other Camera and Lens manufacturers but Flash & Studio Lighting is under "General Gear Talk". Am I'm now going to have to weed through the Nikon, Sony and other Manufacturers gear in order to read what is pertinent for my Canon gear?

The forum allows you to both change the order of the forums and actually hide forums you do not want to see so you should be able to hide those forums if you do not care about them.

How you go about researching your gear doesn't match my way, I find it frustrating to find all those gear review threads and sample photos by XYZ. I like the gear review idea, I use the FredMiranda review often enough. So basically, if you don't like the gear review, you won't have to use it. Just don't go there, and don't click on equipment to see their POTN reviews. You can continue to search threads where people will still continue to review gear and add their thoughts outside the Gear Review. We can have it both ways.

Also, there are many threads that discuss how to make the forum more readable, under your FYEO page are some settings, and FAQ pages. Under the Forum Index, you have a couple of tools available there too to help your forum listing look better.

You really like the word pertinent. Although the old forum was fine and I preferred it I'll get used to the change over time.

I agree about keeping it Canon centric, that's the reason most of the members would have joined here in the first place. I think it's a bad idea to change the core subject of the forum.

Sorry, I was a little tired in regards to "pertinent". I've edited my post in wording it better.

I agree though about the site drifting away from being Canon oriented as it was previous. They've opened the flood gates in attempting to accommodate everyone (like a sales pitch) but such has ruined the original and core intent of the site.

Ralph

Did you read my post? Irrespective, you're making my main point. Fred Miranda is set up in a much more fluid fashion. The "Review" section is completely outside the "Forum" section, btw.

The main point I was making is that there is to much "clutter" with the new POTN. It isn't as user friendly as it used to be and in no way compares to the logical layout it had, much less that of Fred Miranda or Digital Grin.

Well I'll have to see. That however is again making my point. Now I have to study just to learn how to use this website which is something I've never had to do with any other website! There is a problem there. It's called User un-friendly....


Take care,
Ralph

Ralph III wrote in post #17303945
I joined POTN because it was dedicated to Canon users.

I too joined because this was Canon-centric.

LOL nevermind

I don't get the non-Canon argument. Block every forum you're not interested in! You never have to see them! Follow Canon-only forums! What is the big deal?! The site owner can gain a whole new segment of users/members that will in turn benefit his hard work in whatever manner he chooses! Still not happy?! Create your own forums just the way you want! But be prepared to hear it from your members!!!

Hi Snerd, I have already blocked all the non canon forums. I think it's a fair point to make. I used to spend a lot of time on some Subaru forums, all the info was relevant to Subarus. There were other car modding forums which catered to all makes but I always preferred the Subi only boards.

I understand why Pekka wants to expand (more traffic, more revenue) but honestly thinks it detracts from the initial attraction to me of the Canon focused community.

El Pedro wrote in post #17307340
Hi Snerd, I have already blocked all the non canon forums. I think it's a fair point to make....I understand why Pekka wants to expand (more traffic, more revenue) but honestly thinks it detracts from the initial attraction to me of the Canon focused community.

DITTO. I've now blocked some of the forums I don't care for but I don't see that solving related issues.

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1) Now how do I change the default colors to be rid of this hideous white background?

2) How do I limit folks with non Canon specific gear from posting in the "Want To Buy" and "For Sale" threads which I visit quite often! One thing I really dislike about the FM forum is the fact their Classified section lumps all brands together in one extreme or completely isolates each brand in the other extreme with the filter option.

The filter system is fine if you are dogmatic in only getting "Canon" gear. It however is a mess when you want to look for "Third Party" gear that works with your Canon. In that case, I must filter each time under Tamron, Sigma, Tokina or Zeiss and THEN weed through all the non-Canon specific gear in finding gear made for Canon.

The thing about POTN was, you could always expect to find gear that was Canon specific. So I could quickly look through for any deals and or in meeting any requests. That will be lost soon unless they set up a Buy & Sell forum specific for each manufacturer...

3) How do I limit Nikon and others from posting in the many general threads such as "Market Watch", or "Camera Rumors" or "Lens Rumors" (etc)? Now you'll have to weed through all the non-Canon relevant topics in order to find something relevant to Canon...


Again, this used to be a Canon forum now the floodgates are open. I hope it works out but as it stands they've ruined what we all once had in common, which is Canon. Canon related gear, Canon related setups, Canon related photography tips, Canon related issues...


God Bless,
Ralph

Ralph III wrote in post #17307611
Again, this used to be a Canon forum now the floodgates are open. I hope it works out but as it stands they've ruined what we all once had in common, which is Canon. Canon related gear, Canon related setups, Canon related photography tips, Canon related issues...

God Bless,
Ralph

there's just as many people here with that common thread of using canon products as there were before...only now there will be others with different brands...it's like you had a great group of 20 friends...all of a sudden you're moved into a group of 40...you've still got those 20 friends, so who cares about the new 20...hell, maybe you'll like one or two of the new people...

POTN stopped being canon only a long time ago. Many brand users were posting in here before this change. Heck the for sale area also had plenty of brands being sold differently. This is just a natural evolution. Pekka has already stated a revamped marketplace will be coming linking it to the gear section you have today. Constructive criticism is welcomed and if you offer solutions they will be listened to. Understand however that only 1 man coded this together. Be patient as he does this out of his own time while having a full time job and a family. If you want to donate your help to speed things up please reach out to him. If you want to donate funds to help speed it up please do so. There are many options.

I'm continuing to come back day after day, and trying to get used to and like this... but man, ugh... yeah... +1 for what's been said. I jokingly thought to myself earlier that this almost makes me want to switch to Nikon (which ain't happening).

I've obviously spent a lot of time here, but I'd be lying if I said I foresee a future for myself here long term - maybe I'm wrong. I'll be sticking it out for now to see how this goes...

As I've stated elsewhere, nobody ever said it was strictly 100% Canon as you're portraying. It however was overwhelmingly Canon centric and I don't see how anyone would attempt to debate that. You look silly doing so. Again, the motto as stated by Pekka was, "For digital camera enthusiasts using Canon cameras".


Secondly. Many of the different "brand users" as you state were actually former "Canon" users who had joined POTN because of such. They simply changed brands or added a different brand and stayed on POTN because they had history here. After all, I can see you were once a Canon user but obviously Sony is your preference now.

Dedicated Nikon, Fuji and Sony users weren't flocking to what was a dedicated "Canon" forum. Yes, it has become a little more diversified in recent years and Pekka decided to address that. He has however completely ditched the original intent of the POTN website.

I see this website becoming more like FM and others now. Nothing sets it apart. Yes, I can block large sections of undesired and cluttered threads but what does that say?

With due respect, you're mistaken and admittedly contradictory.

First, the camera gear listed in the Market Place "For Sale", "Want to Buy" and even the "Market Watch" was overwhelmingly Canon related. I'd easily say 98%. I Buy and Sell quite a bit of gear, so I visit those threads numerous times daily and have for years.

The thing that was great about POTN was I rarely had to weed through non-Canon related gear which is the problem with FM. It's very tedious to browse through the FM marketplace. In addition, you're most apt in missing out on a deal or in being to late in answering a request by others.

The fact Pekka is addressing this problem is an acknowledgement that it is and will be an issue. He should just put a Marketplace in each relevant thread (Canon, Nikon, Fuji, etc). He could then have a "general" Marketplace for non camera or manufacture-specific gear. This is how Digital Grin is setup and that would quickly solve this pending issue. http://www.dgrin.com/

Uh, that is what I and others have been doing. We have been getting a lot of flack over it though from those who obviously really don't want to "listen" to the concerns we are raising.

I can appreciate that! I'm assuming he is profiting or has some gain involved with the website though? There is nothing wrong with that, btw. It's a mute point because even if he does it for pure enjoyment it's all fine.

All I know is, he created a dedicated Canon forum but has for some reason completely kicked that to the curb. Yes, I can block entire and large sections of the website but there will be no way of limiting non-Canon gear setup or talk in the many "common" areas, such as "Family" or "Weddings" or "Gear talk", etc, etc, etc.

I don't care to hear about how a Nikon or Fuji user got a fantastic shot using their Nikon or Fuji gear or related gear. Nor do I want to waste my time making an inquiry about how someone got a fantastic shot only to then get a reply explaining their Nikon/Fuji setup and related gear. That is completely irrelevant and un-helpful for me.

I want to hear how a Canon user setup his Canon related gear in getting that fantastic shot. That is most helpful to me because I use Canon gear.

This may not seem a big deal but there will be a significant increase in the "percentage" of such posts within common threads. It's unavoidable because this site is no longer Canon centric. I hope it works out but again I see it going the way of other general Photography forums now.

This has long been my favorite site but if another thriving Canon specific forum is created, I will naturally end up jumping ship with POTN and drifting there. I simply don't have time to spend weeding through non-relevant posts or categories. That is why POTN was created in the first place and why I and many others joined. After all, this isn't simply about Pekka as us POTN members also helped make the site what it is.

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LASTLY: Maybe it all works out and I'm able to block all the additional threads of clutter! Maybe the site will be much as it was before in doing so. That would be fantastic! However, I cannot even get past the white background or general look of the new site. It's ugly (w/due respect) and very taxing on the eye's. He could have just tweaked the old site in adding a few new features and other manufacturer specific threads. He could have avoided the drastic overhaul, IMHO. I cannot even figure out how to highlight a word and then insert a link now. Most of the new features seem gimmicky, youth oriented or unnecessary to me, sorry.

God Bless,
Ralph


Ha, Ha. Yes, I have 6 (now 7) (now 8) edits as displayed for some reason below. I've in part had to fix a few quirky and annoying features with this post.