Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 04 Dec 2014 (Thursday) 02:57
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7D2 vs. 5D3, pushing shadows

 
ptcanon3ti
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,338 posts
Gallery: 432 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 6237
Joined Sep 2012
Location: NJ
     
Dec 04, 2014 11:34 |  #16

Op THANK YOU for taking the time to do some experimenting. Surely the 7D2 has taken huge steps in controling the banding issue that has be a thorn in my side and many others.

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17310947 (external link)
Ok, that does make sense. I don't have any personal experience with that type of shooting. I find it quite interesting that I have been doing this for about fifty years, and I can still learn a new trick. Thank goodness for the internet and sites like this. Now to figure out how to apply it.

George - Normally when doing landscapes one will expose for highlights first, that way a sky isnt completely blownout to white. If you expose the sky close to correctly (with canon sensors) the shadow area is not recoverable due to the hideous noise contained there in.

Here is a scene that could not be done with a single exposure.

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7488/15725194477_8caa074790_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pXzJ​sH  (external link) golden beach2 17535-7 PL (external link) by ptcanon7D (external link), on Flickr

I enjoy being able to see detail in the rocks as well as detail in the sky. There are some who will expose for the sky only and the shadowed area would simply be blackness.

Paul
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/petshots/ (external link)
Body - Nikon D750
Lenses - Nikon 20 f1.8 / Nikon 16-35 f4 / Sigma 105 OS Macro / Sigma 24-105 f4 Art / Tamron 70-200 2.8 Di VC / Sigma 150-600 "S"

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
mclaren777
Goldmember
Avatar
1,482 posts
Likes: 84
Joined May 2012
Location: Olympia, WA
Post edited over 4 years ago by mclaren777.
     
Dec 04, 2014 15:55 |  #17

jwcdds wrote in post #17310575 (external link)
Does this mean the 7D2 can stand toe-to-toe with Sony/Nikon?

Surely you jest.


A simple comparison of sensor technology: Nikon vs. Canon (external link)
A technical comparison of sensor technology: Exposure Latitude (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,626 posts
Gallery: 1651 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4531
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Dec 04, 2014 16:01 as a reply to  @ mclaren777's post |  #18

One can hope, no? :D


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
FunkyRider
Hatchling
8 posts
Joined Oct 2012
     
Dec 04, 2014 19:26 |  #19

7D2 does fix the pattern noise, but random noise is still pretty bad, and look at the black level in the first post, it turned purple, which is not good.

The Exmor sensor would give you accurate colors even pushed this hard.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
windpig
Chopped liver
Avatar
14,831 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 1152
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Just South of Ballard
     
Dec 04, 2014 21:31 as a reply to  @ post 17310952 |  #20

Great image.

IMAGE: http://gerberphotos.smugmug.com/Engagements-and-Weddings/Tim-and-Jessica-Gross/i-nv2S4Sc/0/X2/5P1B0751-X2.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Would you like to buy a vowel?
Go ahead, spin the wheel.
flickr (external link)
I'm accross the canal just south of Ballard, the town Seattle usurped in 1907.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
36,128 posts
Gallery: 105 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 5346
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Dec 04, 2014 21:38 |  #21

Thank you, it was my first gig as a 2nd shooter. :)


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock
For Sale: Ladies Thirty-One Camera Sling

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,626 posts
Gallery: 1651 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4531
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Dec 04, 2014 22:19 as a reply to  @ FunkyRider's post |  #22

Perhaps someday I might get a chance to try out the EXMOR and see for myself.


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mclaren777
Goldmember
Avatar
1,482 posts
Likes: 84
Joined May 2012
Location: Olympia, WA
     
Dec 05, 2014 09:05 |  #23

jwcdds wrote in post #17312754 (external link)
Perhaps someday I might get a chance to try out the EXMOR and see for myself.

Here's a small preview of how much detail is retained in the shadows of a D750 image...

Untouched image straight out of camera: http://www.dpreview.co​m …s/experience/DS​C_0122.JPG (external link)
+0.2 EV, +100 shadows, +62 whites, -8 blacks: http://www.dpreview.co​m …perience/DSC_01​22.acr.jpg (external link)


A simple comparison of sensor technology: Nikon vs. Canon (external link)
A technical comparison of sensor technology: Exposure Latitude (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nqjudo
Goldmember
Avatar
3,201 posts
Likes: 1039
Joined Apr 2007
     
Dec 05, 2014 09:10 |  #24

Very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time.


No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. - Edward Steichen.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
David ­ Arbogast
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
11,302 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Likes: 7920
Joined Aug 2010
Location: West Point, Georgia
Post edited over 4 years ago by David Arbogast.
     
Dec 05, 2014 09:25 |  #25

Julian, thanks for taking the time to do this experiment and post it here!

It's great to see the banding issue looks resolved, and considering that you're comparing Canon's latest APS-C sensor to a FF sensor I am optimistic as to what this means for the next iteration of the 1D and 5D cameras. Someone commented that although the banding is resolved, it's still really noisy - well, I think this is pretty decent considering it's an APS-C sensor.

I don't have any misplaced hopes that Canon is actually going to catch up to the Sony Exmor sensor, but this shows improvements are actually being made.

Hopefully we'll get to see the next generation of FF Canon cameras next year.


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, CV 40mm, FE 50mm ZA, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,626 posts
Gallery: 1651 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4531
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Dec 05, 2014 10:26 |  #26

mclaren777 wrote in post #17313422 (external link)
Here's a small preview of how much detail is retained in the shadows of a D750 image...

Untouched image straight out of camera: http://www.dpreview.co​m …s/experience/DS​C_0122.JPG (external link)
+0.2 EV, +100 shadows, +62 whites, -8 blacks: http://www.dpreview.co​m …perience/DSC_01​22.acr.jpg (external link)

I've done very similar shadow pushing with my Canon images and had similar results. (I'm not saying the Canon is better.) I'd still like to try and do a side-by-side comparo for myself someday just to see how far behind Canon is in general.

I've got a few other ideas to test out the 7D2 vs. 5D3/1DX that's circling up in my mind. I just lack the time. :lol:


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,626 posts
Gallery: 1651 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4531
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Dec 05, 2014 10:27 |  #27

David Arbogast wrote in post #17313468 (external link)
Julian, thanks for taking the time to do this experiment and post it here!

It's great to see the banding issue looks resolved, and considering that you're comparing Canon's latest APS-C sensor to a FF sensor I am optimistic as to what this means for the next iteration of the 1D and 5D cameras. Someone commented that although the banding is resolved, it's still really noisy - well, I think this is pretty decent considering it's an APS-C sensor.

I don't have any misplaced hopes that Canon is actually going to catch up to the Sony Exmor sensor, but this shows improvements are are actually being made.

Hopefully we'll get to see the next generation of FF Canon cameras next year.

Yep. I think this is encouraging for the next set of FF cameras coming down the Canon pipeline. I am surprised to see that the banding issue has finally be resolved. It only took them 5 years. Hehehehe...


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
GeoKras1989
Goldmember
Avatar
4,038 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 261
Joined Jun 2014
     
Dec 05, 2014 10:46 |  #28
bannedPermanent ban

mclaren777 wrote in post #17313422 (external link)
Here's a small preview of how much detail is retained in the shadows of a D750 image...

Untouched image straight out of camera: http://www.dpreview.co​m …s/experience/DS​C_0122.JPG (external link)
+0.2 EV, +100 shadows, +62 whites, -8 blacks: http://www.dpreview.co​m …perience/DSC_01​22.acr.jpg (external link)

This explains it better than any reading. I would never even have thought to try that. Thanks for posting this; it explains WHY the OP was underexposing.


WARNING: I often dispense advice in fields I know little about!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,626 posts
Gallery: 1651 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4531
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Dec 05, 2014 10:48 |  #29

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17313713 (external link)
This explains it better than any reading. I would never even have thought to try that. Thanks for posting this; it explains WHY the OP was underexposing.

Haha. Yeah. A picture is worth a thousand words. An in that instance, two thousand words. :)


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chubri777
Goldmember
Avatar
1,533 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Cameron Park, Ca.
     
Dec 05, 2014 22:22 |  #30

tvphotog wrote in post #17311360 (external link)
I've been using a gradient filter in the field to reduce this effect. But there are many times that I expose to the right and will harvest great data from the white areas, but still have a dark area that I'd lie to bring up. I don't think Canon in general does as good a job as the high end Nikons in this regard, and some examples of Nikon's prominence in this area are found in a number of places including DP Review.

Exactly but for future reference, the high end Nikons would look no different from the Canons if it weren't for Sony. I shot pre-exmor Nikons and have seen it first hand.


Regards,
Chuck

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

20,567 views & 6 likes for this thread
7D2 vs. 5D3, pushing shadows
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is quickcashfundingcartitleloans
1069 guests, 244 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.