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FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Official Stuff AMASS Forum Software Talk 
Thread started 02 Dec 2014 (Tuesday) 06:42
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Initial thoughts on AMASS per one POTN member

 
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Wilt
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 05, 2014 09:44 |  #16

I have to voice support for a number of points raised by Ralph.

I have long belonged to FM and to a film oriented forum. But I enjoyed POTN Canon orientation much more (and spent a whole lot more time on it) because I knew that for the most part the questions pertained to use of Canon and to other accessories which are used in conjunction with Canon equipment. I would not read and and then not reply (due to lack of familiarity) to a 'How do I used my flash (unstated....with my Sony') which is what we can end up with now on AMASS.

Particularly the ads...that was one thing that I spend much less time even bothering to visit...the FM all-brands-for-everyone ads -- on FM you had to READ intently to filter ads for Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 if they had the Nikon mount or Pentax mount, for example, rather than simply knowing that all the POTN ads you read for the Tamron 28-75 would fit your Canon.

There seems a bit of hypocritical inconsistency in the AMASS version...the brands are now 'AMASS is open to everyone' but it is impossible for me to list in my Gear anything other than the 'blessed' things on the gear menu...I cannot list my Olympus OM kit, for example, or my medium format stuff or large format stuff, or most of my flash equipment like my Dynalite studio kit, for speedlights I can pick Metz 45CL4 Digital yet I cannot pick my equally Canon-compatible Metz 54MZ4!

As a result right now, the impression one gets in reading my profile is
'Wilt is an old fart who uses a 5D and 40D and does not have interest in the latest cameras', rather than the impression
'Wilt is an old fart who has extensive experience with many brands and many formats of cameras, and extensive lighting knowledge of both studio lighting and speedlights'

Am I against the AMASS changes? No, I helped to Beta test it...some of what it is I helped with many others to shape! But beta tests did not reveal the all-brands direction it was moving toward, and did not reveal to me some of the issues which I have listed in this post.


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OhLook
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Dec 05, 2014 10:51 |  #17

Ralph III wrote in post #17313449 (external link)
I'm assuming he is profiting or has some gain involved with the website though? There is nothing wrong with that, btw. It's a mute point because even if he does it for pure enjoyment it's all fine.

I don't think your assumption is correct. Pekka says the software isn't for sale. Have you noticed that the Google banner ads are gone?

There's no such thing as a mute point. The phrase you're reaching for is "moot point." It has its origins in law.

I cannot even get past the white background or general look of the new site.

Pekka has posted that he'll offer alternative color schemes.


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Post edited over 4 years ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 05, 2014 11:29 |  #18

Wilt wrote in post #17313503 (external link)
There seems a bit of hypocritical inconsistency in the AMASS version...the brands are now 'AMASS is open to everyone' but it is impossible for me to list in my Gear anything other than the 'blessed' things on the gear menu...I cannot list my Olympus OM kit, for example, or my medium format stuff or large format stuff, or most of my flash equipment like my Dynalite studio kit, for speedlights I can pick Metz 45CL4 Digital yet I cannot pick my equally Canon-compatible Metz 54MZ4!

Have you followed the steps to get your gear listed in the database? it is a living breathing database that was bootstrapped as quickly as possible, but has things missing/incorrect. Your assumptions about the gear database and what things are blessed, are just that, assumptions. Be part of the solution, and don't be afraid to ask questions. ;)


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Ralph ­ III
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Dec 05, 2014 12:06 as a reply to  @ OhLook's post |  #19

quote by OhLook....."There's no such thing as a mute point. The phrase you're reaching for is "moot point." It has its origins in law...."

Oh look, a man from San Francisco is correcting my grammar:!: Although I live in Alabama I'm well educated and do understand the difference between "mute" and "moot" but thanks anyhow.

Just FYI, some folks do and have purposefully used the word "mute" as a pun for "moot". So you're incorrect to say there is "no such thing" or usage of mute-point. Whether mine was a grammatical error or not is for you to decide. I did however hope that folks would stay "silent" on that point because it was going to be a waste of our time to address it.

You're not as good as you think though because you missed the part where I stated people were not willing to "listen" to the points some of us are making! That's significantly more flagrant than a mere grammatical error. After all, it's impossible to actually "listen" with your eyes to what is printed on a computer screen. We read with our eyes and hear with our ears. ;-)a

This is all in fun so don't get to heated. I did note your other valid points.......


God Bless,
Ralph


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OhLook
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Dec 05, 2014 12:20 |  #20

Ralph III wrote in post #17313903 (external link)
Oh look, a man from San Francisco is correcting my grammar:!:

Oh, look, a man in Alabama can't tell men from women!


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Pekka
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Dec 05, 2014 15:52 |  #21

Wilt wrote in post #17313503 (external link)
Gear anything other than the 'blessed' things on the gear menu...I cannot list my Olympus OM kit, for example, or my medium format stuff or large format stuff, or most of my flash equipment like my Dynalite studio kit, for speedlights I can pick Metz 45CL4 Digital yet I cannot pick my equally Canon-compatible Metz 54MZ4! .

There is a thread on this forum for gear list additions. Just add your list there and it will be added in near future. Problem solved.


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HappySnapper90
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Dec 06, 2014 21:42 |  #22

snerd wrote in post #17307265 (external link)
I don't get the non-Canon argument. Block every forum you're not interested in! You never have to see them! Follow Canon-only forums! What is the big deal?! The site owner can gain a whole new segment of users/members that will in turn benefit his hard work in whatever manner he chooses! Still not happy?! Create your own forums just the way you want! But be prepared to hear it from your members!!!

If trying to gain a "whole new segment of users" then just use dpreview. This site was good because it was a place for Canon users. Not anymore.




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Dec 06, 2014 22:04 |  #23

Lets refrain from the name calling.

There will be repercussions for that.


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WhyFi
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Dec 06, 2014 22:32 |  #24

HappySnapper90 wrote in post #17317387 (external link)
This site was good because it was a place for Canon users. Not anymore.

Did they get kicked out?


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Wilt
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 07, 2014 00:27 |  #25

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17313801 (external link)
Have you followed the steps to get your gear listed in the database? it is a living breathing database that was bootstrapped as quickly as possible, but has things missing/incorrect. Your assumptions about the gear database and what things are blessed, are just that, assumptions. Be part of the solution, and don't be afraid to ask questions. ;)

Yes, I have tried...again, earlier this morning (about 14 hours before reading your post). Read on...

Pekka wrote in post #17314478 (external link)
There is a thread on this forum for gear list additions. Just add your list there and it will be added in near future. Problem solved.

But, Pekka, you cannot possibly list all the hundreds of cameras brands and models of film cameras, cover format sizes from subminiature thru 8x10, and all the lenses and flash units that existed before the digital revolution...and that is precisely what folks cannot put into their gear profiles, not one studio flash unit can be entered today, for example. POTN was free form, AMASS forces selection from the menu of equipment choices.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
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Dec 07, 2014 06:17 |  #26

Wilt wrote in post #17317619 (external link)
But, Pekka, you cannot possibly list all the hundreds of cameras brands and models of film cameras, cover format sizes from subminiature thru 8x10, and all the lenses and flash units that existed before the digital revolution... and that is precisely what folks cannot put into their gear profiles, not one studio flash unit can be entered today, for example. POTN was free form, AMASS forces selection from the menu of equipment choices.

In time we'll add all that is needed. We've been live only for a few days. Not all esoteric gear will be actively added, but on request I'll add what is needed. The gear database is for members, not for scholars.


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sega62
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Dec 07, 2014 06:48 |  #27

Ralph III wrote in post #17303945 (external link)
My initial reaction is, I don't like the change at all!


I'm sorry but the website is now entirely too busy (clutter) in addition to being very bland overall with the colors, etc. It was OK before but now it is absolutely terrible. Look at FM or Digital Grin for comparison...


1) The forum/thread fonts are now hard on the eyes. They're to small and the Script lettering makes it somewhat tedious in searching for threads. It's not practical for a forum that now has seemingly endless categories.

Agree, the page looks very pale, and looks like a hand written letter.
Sometimes when you create, it can lead to many results, that is the nature of the beast.
This guy must have invest a lot of time into this program, but it could improved on some ways
I was hoping something like dpreview, but there must be a big team on that project, and the POTN builder is all alone.
Maybe have a different presentation would be a big plus.

2) V-Bulletin is quite common and has a natural flow to it; for me, this site no longer has that...

3) I don't like having to click on a POTN members name just to get the number of posts they've had. Please put their posting # back under their name for quick reference. Knowing who I am dealing with is important and it's now time consuming to have to open a new window just to find out.

4) The "Gear Review" section is unnecessary, a poor idea IMHO, and only adds clutter to the website.

a) First, why do you want a Camera, Lens and Flash review section when you already have numerous Camera, Lens, and Flash Categories? Those could have been made into a sticky for each respective Category.

b) Second, I don't put a lot of credence in "reviews" by single and unknown POTN members. I reserve single person "reviews" to people such as Brian at Digital Picture who has a website dedicated for that and who does such professionally.

If I want to know the reputation of a Canon 50d on POTN I just perform a Search and then find the pertinent threads. I can then get the personal input by dozens or even hundreds of POTN members in regards. There is no better review process than that, btw.

5) You've created Categories for other Camera and Lens manufacturers but Flash & Studio Lighting is under "General Gear Talk". Am I'm now going to have to weed through the Nikon, Sony and other Manufacturers gear in order to read what is relevant for my Canon gear?

Summary: You've attempted to be all encompassing but such has just created a lot of clutter and confusion. I joined POTN because it was dedicated to Canon users. This kept things simple and consequently enjoyable. Some good features have now been added but those are lost in the jungle of Categories and tedious nature of the site.


God Bless,
Ralph




  
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Post edited over 4 years ago by xpfloyd.
     
Dec 07, 2014 07:04 |  #28

Wilt wrote in post #17317619 (external link)
Yes, I have tried...again, earlier this morning (about 14 hours before reading your post). Read on...

But, Pekka, you cannot possibly list all the hundreds of cameras brands and models of film cameras, cover format sizes from subminiature thru 8x10, and all the lenses and flash units that existed before the digital revolution...and that is precisely what folks cannot put into their gear profiles, not one studio flash unit can be entered today, for example. POTN was free form, AMASS forces selection from the menu of equipment choices.

Then just revert back to the old way and list your gear in your Sig if you so choose. The fact that the new gear list doesn't contain everything doesn't actually change anything. Heck, I cant even add the 16-35 f/4 because its also not there. We are not being force to use any of the new functions

With regards to everyone going on about how it used to be canon centric and now all the other brands have been let in etc... I really dont get this attitude. Just dont read those threads. Ive been posting in the Fuji and Sony threads for over a year. The only thing thats changed is that they have their own sub-forum now. Its hardly the end of the world


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Dec 07, 2014 08:32 |  #29

xpfloyd wrote in post #17317935 (external link)
Then just revert back to the old way and list your gear in your Sig if you so choose. The fact that the new gear list doesn't contain everything doesn't actually change anything. Heck, I cant even add the 16-35 f/4 because its also not there. We are not being force to use any of the new functions

I can't speak for others, but I think that one of the frustrations (and, admittedly, it's mostly borne of sheer impatience) with the gear listing is that we can't add any images to the gallery without entering the relevant lens info. IOW, we can't take advantage of one of the great new forum features, so even though, as you point out, it's doesn't actually change anything, it still feels like we're missing out on something. Other than adding to the gallery, I don't give a rip about listing my gear (though I understand that some are very gear-prideful).

The whole xenophobic attitude about including other non-Canon manufacturers -- yeah, I don't get that anxiety, either. Maybe it has to do with the... reassurance that some people need. For some reason, some people seem to need constant explicit or implicit reinforcement that they've made the "correct" buying choice. Maybe the think that letting in others diminishes the banging of the "Canon is the best," drum. -?


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Dec 07, 2014 08:43 |  #30

WhyFi wrote in post #17318035 (external link)
I can't speak for others, but I think that one of the frustrations (and, admittedly, it's mostly borne of sheer impatience) with the gear listing is that we can't add any images to the gallery without entering the relevant lens info. IOW, we can't take advantage of one of the great new forum features

Please see
https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=17317901


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Initial thoughts on AMASS per one POTN member
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