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Thread started 25 Nov 2014 (Tuesday) 13:46
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Photographers Gloves

 
jeetsukumaran
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Post edited over 6 years ago by jeetsukumaran. (3 edits in all)
     
Dec 06, 2014 13:37 |  #46

tvphotog wrote in post #17316327 (external link)
I think snow qualities as very cold and wet, and the gloves are used by the Austrian ski team.

Anyway, the two pairs that I purchased did not come with any leather instructions. I would appreciate if you would scan and post that instruction for treating the leather.

I ordered from the Canadian distributor, coolphotographygear (as an aside: really responsive and friendly, and patient with questions, as you can see below; highly recommend going through them), and in the shipping email was told:

"""
The Heat Company who manufacturers the glove recommends using a
leather oil to moisturize the leather from time to time which will
effectively waterproof the leather such that it will not absorb water.

This treatment is best applied in the evening so that it has a chance
to saturate and bond into the leather overnight.

The outer fabric portion of the mitten does not require any treatment
as it is will not absorb water.

"""

I asked for more information regarding the type of treatment and whether or not it had already been pre-treated and was told:

"""
The gloves are not pre-treated and this only becomes an issue in
milder temps and wet/slushy snow. But just to be on the safe side it
is best to use a mink oil, or a treatment for sweade type hiking
boots. Don't use silicone or acrylics.

"""

After discussing some choices of conditioning/weatherin​g agents (and being told to avoid wax-based products to avoid residue from transferring to the camera/lenses), I was recommended this:

http://www.kiwicampdry​.com/mink-oil.aspx (external link)

I note that it has silicon, which I was told to avoid, so have just written back to Michael of coolphotographygear for clarification, wondering if I should use pure mink oil instead (if I am forced to go through the "squashed mink" route).

UPDATE: Within minutes of sending my email described above (on a weekend day, no less!) I heard back from Michael of coolphotographygear:

"""
I would use the pure Mink Oil in liquid form not the paste. Once you apply it use a hair dryer to open the pours and to allow it to really sink in. My business partner did this method and then ran it under water and it worked well.
"""


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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bgsmith
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Dec 06, 2014 14:17 |  #47

I use mechanix gloves, work great and if I need a little more warmth I just wear some liners with them.




  
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tvphotog
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Post edited over 6 years ago by tvphotog. (5 edits in all)
     
Dec 06, 2014 15:39 |  #48

jeetsukumaran wrote in post #17316448 (external link)
Within minutes of sending my email described above (on a weekend day, no less!) I heard back from Michael of coolphotographygear:

"""
I would use the pure Mink Oil in liquid form not the paste. Once you apply it use a hair dryer to open the pours and to allow it to really sink in. My business partner did this method and then ran it under water and it worked well.
"""

I checked the web about using any oil on leather and as I remembered, most sites recommended against it as it caused leather rot over time. Many recommended Lexol Neetsfoot NF as having the least negative effect on the leather and the least residue to wipe off on anything.

I'd be careful with the mink oil as I don't think this is the manufacturer's recommendation, but that of the distributor despite what he said about it coming from the Heat company. If that were the case it would have been included in their packaging or on their site.

I wouldn't heat the leather in any case. It's not a live thing with "pores" that can open, it's just dead animal protein. Heating denatures any protein, like egg whites in a frying pan. Leather will absorb most things, oil or water, without any help.

I'm not arguing with you here, but with the advise you were given which could damage a $200 pair of gloves.


Jay
Ireland in Word and Image (external link) Jay Ben Images (external link)5D IV | 5DS/R | Powershot S100 | 24-105L | 100-400 IIL | 16-35 f/2.8 IIL | 24 T/S f /3.5L II | 17 T/S f/4L | 50mm f/1.2L | 35mm f/1.4L | 70-200 f/2.8L II | 580 EX II | 600 EX-RT | Feisol 3441T/Markins Q3T lever QR | Gitzo 3542L Markins Qi20 BV-22 | Gitzo 5561T RRS MH-02

  
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jeetsukumaran
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Post edited over 6 years ago by jeetsukumaran. (5 edits in all)
     
Dec 06, 2014 16:39 |  #49

tvphotog wrote in post #17316653 (external link)
I checked the web about using any oil on leather and as I remembered, most sites recommended against it as it caused leather rot over time. Many recommended Lexol Neetsfoot NF as having the least negative effect on the leather and the least residue to wipe off on anything.

I'd be careful with the mink oil as I don't think this is the manufacturer's recommendation, but that of the distributor despite what he said about it coming from the Heat company. If that were the case it would have been included in their packaging or on their site.

I wouldn't heat the leather in any case. It's not a live thing with "pores" that can open, it's just dead animal protein. Heating denatures any protein, like egg whites in a frying pan. Leather will absorb most things, oil or water, without any help.

I'm not arguing with you here, but with the advise you were given which could damage a $200 pair of gloves.

While the pores of the leather will not open up due to biological action, they will expand due to physics of the heat expansion. Heating also serves to thin the oil so that it soaks into the leather. If you are going to apply an oil, you definitely want the oil to penetrate and bond to the leather to avoid residue remaining on the surface. And heat makes this happen. Not excessive heat, but gentle heat.

Excessive heat will indeed denature leather. But leather is no more delicate than our skin (and a lot more robust than egg white), and as long as we do not apply more heat to the leather than our own skin, for example, can tolerate without damage (which means not as hot as a frying pan!), it will not be effected negatively. You can heat the oil in a separate container and apply, but need to take care not to overheat the oil or heat the oil too quickly to avoid denaturing the oil itself, let alone the leather. But, in fact, the hair-dryer used post-application is probably safer though because of the more gentle heating regime as well as the limit on how hot it can get.

As far as neatsfoot oil vs. mink oil, Wikiepedia, at least, indicates that neatsfoot can make leather brittle (over long periods of time), while mink oil "has a greater oxidative stability (resistance to rancidity)... than other animal or vegetable oils".


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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tvphotog
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Dec 06, 2014 16:51 as a reply to  @ jeetsukumaran's post |  #50

You apparently will do as you like. Best of luck.


Jay
Ireland in Word and Image (external link) Jay Ben Images (external link)5D IV | 5DS/R | Powershot S100 | 24-105L | 100-400 IIL | 16-35 f/2.8 IIL | 24 T/S f /3.5L II | 17 T/S f/4L | 50mm f/1.2L | 35mm f/1.4L | 70-200 f/2.8L II | 580 EX II | 600 EX-RT | Feisol 3441T/Markins Q3T lever QR | Gitzo 3542L Markins Qi20 BV-22 | Gitzo 5561T RRS MH-02

  
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jeetsukumaran
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Post edited over 6 years ago by jeetsukumaran.
     
Dec 06, 2014 16:57 |  #51

tvphotog wrote in post #17316794 (external link)
You apparently will do as you like. Best of luck.

Actually, I am probably not going to do it until it seems like I am going to be encountering that unusual combination of very cold and wet. And even then, before I do, I will probably experiment with some spare leather items. I just posted the above information in the interests of informational accuracy and completeness!


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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tvphotog
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Dec 08, 2014 13:30 |  #52

This is from the head of Heat 3 in N.A.:

Hello Jay,

Yes, if you want your gloves to last you long its better to treat them with leather care products just like you take care of your leather shoes. I am not saying they wont last you long if you wont apply any product, but for the best performance we strongly recommend it.

Kind regards,

Valentin G.
Official Rep In North America


I was wrong, I guess even goatskin needs some care if it gets wet. The only issue is finding a leather care product that does not leave an oily residue to get on the camera.


Jay
Ireland in Word and Image (external link) Jay Ben Images (external link)5D IV | 5DS/R | Powershot S100 | 24-105L | 100-400 IIL | 16-35 f/2.8 IIL | 24 T/S f /3.5L II | 17 T/S f/4L | 50mm f/1.2L | 35mm f/1.4L | 70-200 f/2.8L II | 580 EX II | 600 EX-RT | Feisol 3441T/Markins Q3T lever QR | Gitzo 3542L Markins Qi20 BV-22 | Gitzo 5561T RRS MH-02

  
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jeetsukumaran
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Post edited over 6 years ago by jeetsukumaran.
     
Dec 08, 2014 13:51 |  #53

tvphotog wrote in post #17320782 (external link)
This is from the head of Heat 3 in N.A.:

Hello Jay,

Yes, if you want your gloves to last you long its better to treat them with leather care products just like you take care of your leather shoes. I am not saying they wont last you long if you wont apply any product, but for the best performance we strongly recommend it.

Kind regards,

Valentin G.
Official Rep In North America


I was wrong, I guess even goatskin needs some care if it gets wet. The only issue is finding a leather care product that does not leave an oily residue to get on the camera.

Thanks for reporting this.

Yep, now comes the issue of identifying the agent to use.

Based on the "100% mink oil with no silicon or neatsfoot oil" and "liquid" criteria, I've narrowed it down to the following:

* http://www.ebay.com …t%3D4%26sd%3D32​1525418899 (external link)

* http://www.ebay.com …&var=&hash=item​76d66837e7 (external link)

I think the following might be 100% mink oil, but am not certain:

* http://www.amazon.com …psc=1&smid=A1JA​5KRW4H4LNH (external link)

And the following is 100% mink oil, but is a paste. From what I've read, it should work if it can be heated slowly (over 2-3 hours) to thin it out.

* http://www.amazon.com …psc=1&smid=A1B7​M9EQGNCLQA (external link)


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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Walshman
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Dec 09, 2014 00:31 |  #54

+1 more for Mechanix.




  
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tvphotog
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Dec 11, 2014 11:39 |  #55

Take a look here (external link)regarding leather care with this petroleum based product. All the animal oils including neetsfoot oils will break down over time as this article suggests. And I think that all of them may leave some surface residue. I wonder if the same is true for this petroleum product.


Jay
Ireland in Word and Image (external link) Jay Ben Images (external link)5D IV | 5DS/R | Powershot S100 | 24-105L | 100-400 IIL | 16-35 f/2.8 IIL | 24 T/S f /3.5L II | 17 T/S f/4L | 50mm f/1.2L | 35mm f/1.4L | 70-200 f/2.8L II | 580 EX II | 600 EX-RT | Feisol 3441T/Markins Q3T lever QR | Gitzo 3542L Markins Qi20 BV-22 | Gitzo 5561T RRS MH-02

  
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jeetsukumaran
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Post edited over 6 years ago by jeetsukumaran. (7 edits in all)
     
Dec 11, 2014 14:25 as a reply to  @ tvphotog's post |  #56

Might be worth calling them to find out?

I have just completed an experiment with NikWax glove proof. Applied it to an old leather belt. Very quickly it seemed to be absorbed with no apparent residue. Pressing it against a clean glass leaves some marks, but what doesn't? Touching it with (latex) gloved fingers and then pressing against glass leaves no marks.

I think this would be enough to convince me that this product might be OK to use on gloves that come into contact with photographic gear, if it were not for the fact that leather in the belt happens to be of a very different quality: very stiff and hard. I cannot seem to find any leather items that have the same suppleness as the goatskin palms on the HEAT Smart 3 gloves. Well, except for a couple of my wife's handbags ... I am not sure I might survive long enough to report back on the results if I tried experimenting with those, though. I will see if I can source some suitable leather from elsewhere and try this again.

As for the animal oils breaking down ... well, yes. Everything organic will break down. But whether over a couple of years or a couple of decades or a couple of centuries is the question. There are lots of leather items from the WWII and even the WWI era (e.g., from jackets to pilots caps to straps on bags) that have no doubt had some very crudely processed animal fats/oils applied to them again and again and again and again when they were in prime use. Quite a few of them are still holding up pretty well (search ebay for "original leather ww2", for example). And the ones that are not holding up well are cracked and dry looking, so most likely not falling apart due to rancidity or breaking down of the conditioning agent, but probably quite the opposite: indicating that they were not conditioned or taken care of.

They way I look at it: the heat smart gloves are to be used, not preserved for eventual display at the Guggenheim. They are nice, but they are not fine art. I anticipate rough usage on my end: not just for photography in the cold, but for e.g., walking the dogs. They need to hold up to cold (and wet) for a long while, but not forever. I am not concerned over using mink oil even if it means it will break down the gloves over a hundred years, or even a couple of decades. I am more concerned about the oil residue transferring to camera gear. I have not found anyone who has been able to definitely say one way or another whether this is going to be an issue. If there is going to be transfer or the conditioning agent, I would prefer it to be water based, like the NikWax. But if the oil-based or petroleum based minimizes the risk of transfer, then that would be preferable to the water based.

Or, I might forgo the conditioning and just using something else when it is "wet cold" rather than the much colder "dry cold".


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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jeetsukumaran
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Dec 11, 2014 14:33 as a reply to  @ tvphotog's post |  #57

Incidentally, the link you posted is for a conditioning agent to protect the leather, but not (explicitly stated) to waterproof it.

I think the latter is what we want for the gloves. It is fine and dandy to have well-conditioned leather, but then all they would be good for is to hide the frost-bitten stumps of fingers you are going to put into them next year if they are not waterproof this year!


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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unit00kai
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Dec 13, 2014 23:04 |  #58

i think going shoot snow some point.all post be really useful


Canon 5d mk2 , 24-70L F/ 2.8 canon ,Sigma 50mm f/1.4, 135 F/2 canon

  
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jeetsukumaran
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Dec 24, 2014 13:15 |  #59

So a follow-up. After some tests with a pair of soft leather gloves (the provenance of which will remain undisclosed in the interests of a peaceful holiday season), I applied full coatings of NikWax Glove Proof on the Heat Smart 3 gloves. Followed instructions: liberal/heavy application all along leather areas as well as seams where the leather is stitched to the other material, waiting a while, then wiping off excess with damp cloth. Waited a couple of hours, followed by pressing hard on a clean mirror leaves to test for residue transfer. None whatsoever. So much so that I was wondering if I wiped away all the NikWax! So I applied it again. And again, no residue in mirror.

Not sure if the NikWax will prove as effective as the mink oil, or, indeed effective at all. First time out in a wet cold will prove this. Unless I decide to carry out the testing required (as I am am known to do :) ). I just might do that if this weather does not let up: I believe field gear should be robust and tough, and if it is not, better for it to fail in testing contexts than in the field!


Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jeetsukumaran/ (external link) Website: http://jeetworks.org/ (external link) Canon 6D, Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21, EF 24-70 f/2.8L II USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II.

  
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gashpono
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Dec 26, 2014 21:05 |  #60

tvphotog wrote in post #17302005 (external link)
I just wanted to update my posts, as I've received a pair of the Heat 3 Smart Gloves from Outdoor Photo Gear here in the US. I think they're the distributor here. The gloves come in all sizes there, but only in black which I wanted in any case. 4 other colors are available in the UK, for about a total of $10 more which includes shipping.

The bottom line for me is that all that is advertised is accurate. The inner glove is polypro and a bit thicker than a poly glove liner; it's like a poly glove that you might wear in cold weather with a windproof shell over it. The thumb and index finger pads indeed do operate a touch screen, but the biggest factor for me is that they fingers fit closely and are sensitive enough to feel the tiny extrusion in the middle of the ISO button near the top LCD, let alone to operate all the other buttons with ease. This was the description also given in the testimonials from photographers who had used them.

They are expensive, but I haven't found another glove that really works in the cold, and I don't mean below zero, I mean in the 30's and 40"s on a windy day, staying outside for more than 15 minutes. For me they're a keeper.

Photo courtesy Outdoor Photo Gear (external link)

Just wondering if your fingertips get cold/frozen after a while, when the glove part is used "naked" for operating the camera?




  
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Photographers Gloves
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