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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 27 Dec 2014 (Saturday) 16:45
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Rookie mistake, needing print advice

 
modestglock26
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Dec 27, 2014 16:45 |  #1

Well, my first sold print left my client (sister) not so thrilled. Apparently after being okay with a large canvas print, it turns out she now doesn't want canvas. I sent the printer a massive file to work with, and the image was one she wanted printed, but she's claiming the canvas just really takes away from it (claims it looks flat and more like a painting). I didn't get to see it as shipping went straight to her house. I can get a refund on it, so I'm not out of anything but I'm a little bummed out.

Now, she's wanting the image but in something that will apparently not yield the same dull results as the canvas did. I don't know if I'll be sticking to the same size print this time or not. I'm looking to see what the best options are for a large B&W pano that will help it stand out. I've seen aluminum and glass print options, but I don't know if they will be able to go large enough as the canvas was 24"x64".

Debating where to go from here.


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Nogo
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Nogo.
     
Dec 27, 2014 17:48 |  #2

When I print at home often I will print a smaller print first. Then if it looks like what I want, then I will print a larger print. Even with a calibrated monitor that is very well matched to the printer, sometimes a print just doesn't look like you expect.

Before trying to please her with trying different mediums, in this case it may pay to get a small copy first and then if she really likes it, have it printed in a larger size. Might even be able to get her to pay the costs of the smaller prints when she buys the final product...... Doing it that way it would be her decision.


Philip

  
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Hogloff
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Dec 27, 2014 19:52 as a reply to  @ Nogo's post |  #3
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Did you get a profile from the lab and process the image using the profile? Do you use a calibrated system when processing you images. If not, you are just rolling the dice on how the final print will look, no matter what medium and what lab does the print.




  
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AlFooteIII
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Dec 27, 2014 20:14 as a reply to  @ Hogloff's post |  #4

I'm guessing the canvas looks flatter because, well, it is -- none of the sheen of a glossy or even matte paper stock. And it would tend to look more like a painting, owing to the texture. Acrylic or metallic might actually be cheaper, looking at similarly sized pricing at adoramapix.com

Good luck!


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modestglock26
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Dec 27, 2014 21:20 as a reply to  @ Hogloff's post |  #5

I only got a proof from them prior to the print and I didn't know any better or to ask about a profile. New to this.


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modestglock26
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Dec 27, 2014 21:24 |  #6

We are discussing aluminum now as it seems to yield nice outcomes with B&W stuff.

The concerns and details of printing have never really contributed to my photography hobby. I print next to nothing, which I really need to change. This print job just sort of got pushed on me, so I didn't know where to really start. I just wanted them to have a product they loved. And while we both agreed on canvas at the beginning of the process, I guess I can see now how it would be something to question.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Dan Marchant.
     
Dec 27, 2014 21:41 |  #7

modestglock26 wrote in post #17353477 (external link)
The concerns and details of printing have never really contributed to my photography hobby. I print next to nothing, which I really need to change.

Was in the same situation until recently. My pal recently got a very nice Canon printer and I have fallen in love with black and white prints on good matte paper. I then started selling prints and someone asked if I could do Canvas wraps (and someone else contacted me to offer the service). I decided against it as I didn't think it suited the images I was creating.


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Bcaps
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Dec 28, 2014 19:22 |  #8

modestglock26 wrote in post #17353477 (external link)
We are discussing aluminum now as it seems to yield nice outcomes with B&W stuff.

The concerns and details of printing have never really contributed to my photography hobby. I print next to nothing, which I really need to change. This print job just sort of got pushed on me, so I didn't know where to really start. I just wanted them to have a product they loved. And while we both agreed on canvas at the beginning of the process, I guess I can see now how it would be something to question.

I've heard good things about Whitewall's B/W prints on Ilford (external link) and Ilford Baryta (external link) paper.


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Dec 29, 2014 03:50 as a reply to  @ Bcaps's post |  #9

i've had one done and it looks just like a black and white print from a really nice (35mm) Pan F neg printed on the same paper in a darkroom. It just has something that you loose in having a monochrome print done on colour paper such as Fuji Crystal Archive. The only reason I do not have all my monochrome prints done this way is cost. A 16×12 Whitewall print on Ilford paper, with the wide border option, which I would choose if I were going to frame, costs £16.98 with £9.99 postage and packaging, although they are shipping from Berlin. My normal lab can do 16×12 on Fuji CA paper at £1.10 each and £4.99 P&P. One other great thing about Whitewall is that they will print to just about any size you care to specify, as long as it is within the capabilities of the system to produce the print. I think the Ilford paper goes to 72" wide.

Seeing the image that you want to print would also help in offering advice.

Alan


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modestglock26
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Jan 14, 2015 14:15 |  #10

Still trying to determine what the new size is going to be. I don't think they want it quite as large now. Still looking into whitewall.com but not sure if they would like it under acrylic or not. It is a pano very similar to this from the same spot/weather conditions. Trying to keep it sharp and not have it feel flat when printed.


IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2947/15365366141_7c9f2311b7_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ppMw​2T  (external link) contrast pano (external link) by cxcxsx (external link), on Flickr

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Bcaps
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Jan 14, 2015 15:19 |  #11

Output sharpening will be very important then to keep the print from being "flat". I found the output sharpening tutorial here (external link) particularly helpful. Resize first (at 200 dpi if you are doing that large a print) and then sharpen. You want the image to look a little over sharpened on your screen (ie, more than if you were output sharpening for a web image).

I do a 1st round of High Pass sharpening in overlay blend mode to just "tighten up" the image, not take it all the way. Start at 1 pixel and then increase the radius until it looks good but not over-sharpened (if resized to 200 DPI view your sharpening at 50% zoom). You will likely be at around 3 pixels if doing that large of a print. The 2nd round of sharpening I do is then USM. View at 50% zoom, 100% amount, radius to minimum, threshold 0. Starting from zero, bump up the radius until it looks good. Then go one more. It will look a little over sharpened, but when printed the softening that happens from the print process is addressed by this little bit of over sharpening. You don't want to USM the shadows/highlights, so mask out any of those areas.

The problem with whitewall is there is no way to enter any kind of a discussion with the printer about what resolution they will print at; I've never had success with getting an email reply or even them answering the phone. You go to all the work to resize and sharpen accordingly, but will they print it at 200 dpi (they should), who knows... I doubt it, I would guess they print everything at 300 dpi. You can try a lab like West Coast Imaging, it's easy to get them on the phone and they will be happy to answer any questions you have.


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modestglock26
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Jan 14, 2015 15:41 |  #12

Bcaps wrote in post #17382442 (external link)
Output sharpening will be very important then to keep the print from being "flat". I found the output sharpening tutorial here (external link) particularly helpful. Resize first (at 200 dpi if you are doing that large a print) and then sharpen. You want the image to look a little over sharpened on your screen (ie, more than if you were output sharpening for a web image).

I do a 1st round of High Pass sharpening in overlay blend mode to just "tighten up" the image, not take it all the way. Start at 1 pixel and then increase the radius until it looks good but not over-sharpened (if resized to 200 DPI view your sharpening at 50% zoom). You will likely be at around 3 pixels if doing that large of a print. The 2nd round of sharpening I do is then USM. View at 50% zoom, 100% amount, radius to minimum, threshold 0. Starting from zero, bump up the radius until it looks good. Then go one more. It will look a little over sharpened, but when printed the softening that happens from the print process is addressed by this little bit of over sharpening. You don't want to USM the shadows/highlights, so mask out any of those areas.

The problem with whitewall is there is no way to enter any kind of a discussion with the printer about what resolution they will print at; I've never had success with getting an email reply or even them answering the phone. You go to all the work to resize and sharpen accordingly, but will they print it at 200 dpi (they should), who knows... I doubt it, I would guess they print everything at 300 dpi. You can try a lab like West Coast Imaging, it's easy to get them on the phone and they will be happy to answer any questions you have.


Thank you for the information. I just installed the West Coast app on my laptop and hope to figure out how to handle this as soon as I can get some new size requests for it. The main issue right now is my sisters complete lack of communication in reference to what they want. I'm waiting for her to come up with what sizes will work for them, before I waste any more time and energy on this. They wanted the acrylic at first and then scrapped that completely.

It's beyond frustrating as it is still such a learning process for me. I'd like to be able to get someone on the phone that can dumb down some information for me.


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modestglock26
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Jan 14, 2015 17:26 |  #13

Now I'm just debating trying to get out for another trek and shoot with my 5dmkII and making new panos even though they like what I've sent them.

The love it on the computer, I just need to get it on the wall while keeping it looking the same.


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Rookie mistake, needing print advice
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