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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 31 Dec 2014 (Wednesday) 08:12
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GoPro in Bowling Alley leads to Confrontation

 
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sspellman
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Jan 01, 2015 14:08 |  #91

The Bowling Alley is private property and they make the rules period, just the same as you make the rules at your house. If people filming on their cell phones caused a complaint, I'm sure they would be asked to stop too.

The video is your property until you were asked to stop. Neither the business or police can confiscate or delete the video. You have rights to publish the video as long as you don't violate State Privacy Laws that require a recognizable person's consent for commercial or adverting use. You could still be arrested by the police if they establish a crime took place or sued by the business.


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Jan 01, 2015 14:21 as a reply to  @ post 17360734 |  #92

How do you equate filming friends in a bowling alley with taking photos of a child killed by a truck? If the OP had used a csmera phone and not drawn any attention to himself this would be a non issue.




  
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OhLook
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Jan 01, 2015 14:27 |  #93

sspellman wrote in post #17360754 (external link)
You could still be arrested by the police if they establish a crime took place or sued by the business.

The police don't establish that a crime took place; the courts do that. The police can arrest you on suspicion that a crime took place--not the same thing. Perhaps I'm being picky, but perhaps not. It often happens that police officers don't know the law. They've often enough got the law wrong when admonishing photographers.

I doubt that the business would sue you. They might toss you out and forbid you to come back.


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Jan 01, 2015 17:09 |  #94

OhLook wrote in post #17360778 (external link)
The police don't establish that a crime took place; the courts do that. The police can arrest you on suspicion that a crime took place--not the same thing. Perhaps I'm being picky, but perhaps not. It often happens that police officers don't know the law. They've often enough got the law wrong when admonishing photographers.

I doubt that the business would sue you. They might toss you out and forbid you to come back.

After doing jury service ( twice ) I can confirm that often the police have a poor grasp of the law.........


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StanNJ1
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Jan 01, 2015 17:30 |  #95

After reading some of the comments in this thread I feel it necessary to clarify some facts that are apparently being overlooked by those with different agendas.

I started this thread with the hope of getting other opinions on a situation I found myself in so that I would be better educated if it should ever happen again.

I never stated or implied that my views or actions were correct. Instead I asked for opinions.

My original intention was to create a funny video of my friends and I bowling. We are all getting up in the years and believe me if you saw us bowl you would agree it was funny.

I never created the video but I did post a short clip, which was originally intended to be for filler material, so that I could illustrate the situation that took place. I have since removed it due to the hostility and name calling that ensued within this thread.

When employee #1 approached me I was not still recording video. She stated that someone saw me taking a video and that I would not be allowed to do it any longer. I POLITELY told her that I will respect her request and will no longer shoot. I also told her that I didn't believe she had the right to ask me to stop (although I agreed to stop). I asked her what the difference was between my activity and someone with a cell phone and she replied, "It's different", but could not effectively elaborate why.

Shortly afterward, while I was explaining to my friends what happened, I was approached by employee #2. She said that she was told what happened and reminded me not to shoot anymore. I had the same conversation with her that I did with the first employee, and reiterated the fact that I would comply with their request. We continued the cell phone/GoPro dialogue with similar results.


At no time did I ever tell anyone that I could do whatever I want. At no time was I disrespectful to anyone. At the time of the confrontation I had a belief that I had the right to shoot video, even though I quickly agreed to honor their request not to. We had a discussion about this, not an argument.

After starting this thread it became apparent to me that my understanding of my right was incorrect since it was in a private establishment. I only learned this due to some helpful and knowledgeable folks in this thread.

Because of this, I created a post on page three of this thread where I admitted that based on what I now know, I was wrong for assuming they didn't have the right to ask me to stop and that I am considering going back over there to apologize. (I haven't yet but will likely do so)

As this thread began to unfold it became apparent that there are two issues in play; First, did they have the right to ask me to stop, which we've established they did. Second, what are the rights of the videographer/photograp​her and what are the rights of the person(s) being video/photographed.

The discussion was still healthy and educational but then it went off the rails when certain individuals began the insults and name calling for reasons I cannot comprehend.


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Jan 01, 2015 17:41 |  #96

h14nha wrote in post #17361006 (external link)
After doing jury service ( twice ) I can confirm that often the police have a poor grasp of the law.........

That's one way I learned it. I was on a jury panel where a man had been charged with violating a state statute that doesn't apply in the location where the alleged offense occurred. California has two kinds of cities: incorporated cities and charter cities. I happened to know that this was a charter city. The statute specified incorporated cities. Somehow, the case got to the stage of jury selection without the difference being noticed by anyone along the chain, even the attorneys or the judge. I sent the judge a note. He called the attorneys into chambers. After a while, the defense attorney came out smiling. Then the prosecutor came out looking slightly ill.

Next time I was called, there was a different issue, one involving research findings I'd read about that concern error rates in eyewitness IDs. I can't get onto a jury, however much I'd like to.


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Jan 01, 2015 18:02 |  #97
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gmm213 wrote in post #17359994 (external link)
I think you had the perfect reaction. Stop recording as you were asked but point out the double standard. I see many photos and videos from a few friends that bowl regularly never any problem. Unfortunately since they had already taken a stand they wouldn't have changed it.

As for calling the police they could go ahead and call the police for you filming. The police would have been SOL seeing as how video recording isn't illegal, though in some states now they're dredging up old wire tapping laws so maybe.

As for him trying to get a reaction I don't see how so.He was simply filming a night out with his friends at the bowling alley. If this is the case that anyone filming or photographing places are getting a reaction facebook and instagram should both be shut down because it's just people getting reactions (trolling aside).

If people have a problem with you photographing or filming them unfortunately the establishment can ask you to leave, no warning needed, and if you refuse you can be arrested. But I don't see why people care about being on fb or such, especially when you can bet there's at least one photo on some social network with them on it

People have their reasons why they don't want to be photographed and plastered up on FB etc... YOU need to respect their wishes.




  
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Hogloff
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Jan 01, 2015 18:04 |  #98
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elitejp wrote:
=elitejp;17360039
in any case this is an interesting thread and to me it shows that just because something is legal doesnt necessarily make it right. At least thats how i see it.

Yep...famous quote from Jurassic Park.

"Just because we can...does not mean we should".




  
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Jan 01, 2015 18:12 as a reply to  @ post 17360197 |  #99
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Exactly. If the OP was filming my family out for a fun night of bowling...the cops would have to come for a different reason.

OP...my advice is grow up a bit.

Let's push this to the extreme. You have a hot tub in your back yard. I climb the neighbors tree and start filming you with your wife in the hot tub. You be OK with that? I know this is extreme...but you filming a child without permission is basically on the same ballpark as what I described.




  
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Jan 01, 2015 18:15 |  #100
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EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17360613 (external link)
All true, which is why I said Hillbillie was exaggerating. I do still think that the ethical thing to do would be to not post the video if people in it were concerned about it and apologize for offending anyone and move on with your day.

Stop sounding like a grown up here. We are all playing in the sandbox and you come and ruin our fun.:-)




  
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gmm213
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Jan 01, 2015 18:24 |  #101

Hogloff wrote in post #17361088 (external link)
People have their reasons why they don't want to be photographed and plastered up on FB etc... YOU need to respect their wishes.

People can have whatever messed up reasons they want doesn't mean they're rational, though they can have them. At the same time I don't need to respect crap. Especially because my filming isn't illegal.


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Jan 01, 2015 18:24 |  #102

Hogloff wrote in post #17361124 (external link)
Exactly. If the OP was filming my family out for a fun night of bowling...the cops would have to come for a different reason.

OP...my advice is grow up a bit.

Let's push this to the extreme. You have a hot tub in your back yard. I climb the neighbors tree and start filming you with your wife in the hot tub. You be OK with that? I know this is extreme...but you filming a child without permission is basically on the same ballpark as what I described.

You and your family are in a public place, you have no expectation of privacy and no claim to it. Unless the videographer crosses the line to harassment, assauslt or some other crime he can film you. In this case the owner of business can prevent him from filming. Just what harm is going to come to your family by being videotaped bowling? In your backyard you would have an expectation of privacy, different issue altogether.




  
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Jan 01, 2015 18:27 as a reply to  @ Hogloff's post |  #103

Again someone is taking a completely different situation you are taking someone who is filming a night out with his friends and others are in the video to someone specifically going out of there way to film someone explicitly


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Jan 01, 2015 18:30 |  #104

Hogloff wrote in post #17361124 (external link)
Exactly. If the OP was filming my family out for a fun night of bowling...the cops would have to come for a different reason.

OP...my advice is grow up a bit.

Nothing like a seeing someone suggest he would use violence to solve a minor problem, then immediately tell someone else to grow up.


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Jan 01, 2015 18:32 |  #105

Hogloff wrote in post #17361124 (external link)
Exactly. If the OP was filming my family out for a fun night of bowling...the cops would have to come for a different reason.

OP...my advice is grow up a bit.

Let's push this to the extreme. You have a hot tub in your back yard. I climb the neighbors tree and start filming you with your wife in the hot tub. You be OK with that? I know this is extreme...but you filming a child without permission is basically on the same ballpark as what I described.

Ok I see we are going to continue down the same irrational road.
I wasn't filming anyone's family. I wasn't hovering over a child as someone else here implied. I in fact didn't change my walking pace, didn't change the camera angle, didn't target anyone individually. It was a non stop panning motion. And you want to compare this to someone walking into a person's backyard and filming them with their wife in their hot tub? Does this sound rational to you?


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GoPro in Bowling Alley leads to Confrontation
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