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Thread started 30 Oct 2014 (Thursday) 07:46
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What 5D MK IV SHOULD be to stay competitive

 
Shadowblade
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Dec 29, 2014 21:06 |  #136

light_pilgrim wrote in post #17355321 (external link)
Exactly, this is why you need a different sokution for a different group of photographers. It is impossible to produce one camera that will be perfect for professional sport, landscape and street photographers.

Yes you can. It would just require extreme bandwidth (for 54MP at 14fps or so), a pixel binning option (for lower resolution shots which still take advantage of all the pixels to minimise noise), a slimline, form-fitting removal grip and a lot of features that would make for a very expensive camera.

Personally, I'd prefer a multi-camera approach. After all, the 5D2 and 5D3 aren't even really from the same class of camera - one was a high-resolution (for the time) IQ monster, the other a general-purpose body emphasising AF and other features over IQ.

1Dx2: 32MP, 14fps (if moving mirror) or 25fps (in 8k video mode), top-of-the-line AF, dedicated action camera
3D: 54MP, 5fps, top-of-the-line AF, high-resolution stills camera also capable of capturing action (like the D810)
5D4: 32MP, 8fps (possible 8k video too), top-of-the-line AF, general-purpose camera (like the D700 or D750)
6Ds 54MP, 4fps, basic AF (like the 5D2)
6D: 32MP, 5fps, basic AF, budget model (like the D610)

As well as a mirrorless version of the high-resolution version, which would be similar to an A7r with attached Metabones, but with much better/faster AF from being Canon native.

In other words, one action (1D), one high-resolution (3D) and one general-purpose (5D) camera at the top end, as well as the same sensors put into a basic body for those who don't need the features.

Too many cameras? Well, Nikon does it...




  
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light_pilgrim
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Dec 30, 2014 13:54 |  #137

Some more info on 52MP camera: http://www.canonrumors​.com …-canon-full-frame-camera/ (external link)


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HappySnapper90
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Jan 01, 2015 21:13 |  #138

NemethR wrote in post #17241538 (external link)
I think the Mark 4 is still a year away I do not see any point in speculating :D

Why?!
5D was introduced in 2005
5D Mark II in 2009
5D Mark III in 2012
So these are aprox 3.5-4 years.
My prediction based on that is the Mark IV is coming sometime in 2016

2008 not 2009. Past schedule is no indicator of future timelines!




  
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Jan 02, 2015 08:43 |  #139

What makes me think that the 5D4 is coming soon is the price drop on the 5D3. Seems like that is the way they operate when a new camera model is coming shortly.


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pbelarge
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Jan 06, 2015 07:19 as a reply to  @ post 17241818 |  #140

Patbil,
I agree with a lot of what you have said here.
My only beef is shadows. Pulling out of shadows with the 5D3 is not alway a pleasant venture. There are times it is just terrible.

Other than that, I love the camera, have great lenses, some awesome results,
and would need a big improvement to the 5DIV in order to move to it.


just a few of my thoughts...
Pierre

  
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Shadowblade
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Jan 06, 2015 20:00 |  #141

pbelarge wrote in post #17368655 (external link)
Patbil,
I agree with a lot of what you have said here.
My only beef is shadows. Pulling out of shadows with the 5D3 is not alway a pleasant venture. There are times it is just terrible.

Other than that, I love the camera, have great lenses, some awesome results,
and would need a big improvement to the 5DIV in order to move to it.

Shadows (i.e. DR) are the only problem with the 5D3. Other than that, it's probably the most versatile camera out there (the D810 being equal in terms of functionality and possibly slightly better in AF, but two years late to the party). But it's a bit like the D700 - an excellent camera for its time, but stuck with a mediocre sensor.

Resolution can be seen in different ways - some need more, some need less. Perhaps the best approach is to go Sony-style and release the same body with different sensors (say, a 32MP and a 54MP sensor for the 5D4), or Phase One-style pixel binning which really makes use of all the pixels there to make a superb low-resolution image.




  
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Jan 11, 2015 03:45 |  #142

Some new rumors on 5D MKIV....
It can be that Canon will release several bodies....Hi Res and Action oriented.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …iii-replacement-talk-cr2/ (external link)


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Shadowblade
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Jan 11, 2015 03:57 |  #143

light_pilgrim wrote in post #17376676 (external link)
Some new rumors on 5D MKIV....
It can be that Canon will release several bodies....Hi Res and Action oriented.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …iii-replacement-talk-cr2/ (external link)

Makes sense.

Just like 1Ds3 vs 1D3, or A7r vs A7, or D3s vs D3x and so on - same basic camera, with a different sensor inside depending on the requirements.




  
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Feb 08, 2015 04:23 |  #144

I think the Canon 5d Mark IV need:
- Dynamic range, but unfortunately I don't have much hope about that
- Iso performance, on that point I think exist some hope
And an integrated wi-fi will be great.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 08, 2015 05:18 |  #145

alessandro2009 wrote in post #17421264 (external link)
I think the Canon 5d Mark IV need:
- Dynamic range, but unfortunately I don't have much hope about that
- Iso performance, on that point I think exist some hope
And an integrated wi-fi will be great.

The 5D4 doesn't need DR - it's a high-ISO action camera.

It's the 5Ds - a low-ISO, landscape-specialist camera - that really needs DR. Unfortunately, by current accounts, it doesn't seem to have it.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Feb 08, 2015 08:48 |  #146

alessandro2009 wrote in post #17421264 (external link)
I think the Canon 5d Mark IV need:
- Iso performance, on that point I think exist some hope

Yes; revolutionary improvements in the way color is filtered, alone, could improve sensitivity to scene illumination by a factor of 3x in the green channel, 9x in the blue channel, and 12x in the red channel, compared to today's most efficient color-filtered sensors.

Also, read noise as measured in electrons at the pixel level can drop below about 0.15, and then firmware can convert that data to very accurate photon counting (by having a separate bell curve in the RAW histogram for each photon count and turning each bell curve into a single value), allowing usable photos on FF cameras at ISOs well into the tens of millions, when combined with more efficient color separation.

The high-ISO story is far from finished, and the base-ISO DR story is far from it, as well.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Feb 08, 2015 08:53 |  #147

Shadowblade wrote in post #17421303 (external link)
The 5D4 doesn't need DR - it's a high-ISO action camera.

It's the 5Ds - a low-ISO, landscape-specialist camera - that really needs DR. Unfortunately, by current accounts, it doesn't seem to have it.

That's true for most people based on current usage trends, but ultimately, cameras should only be using a single analog gain for all ISOs, and that requires high DR. Shooting at ISO 200,000 from an analog gain capable of having 3 stops of headroom at ISO 100 gives two important benefits; you have lots of preserved highlights (many, many stops above metered ISO 200,000 gray), and extremely small losslessly compressed RAW files where there is little or nothing in the potential extended highlights.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 08, 2015 09:32 |  #148

John Sheehy wrote in post #17421527 (external link)
That's true for most people based on current usage trends, but ultimately, cameras should only be using a single analog gain for all ISOs, and that requires high DR. Shooting at ISO 200,000 from an analog gain capable of having 3 stops of headroom at ISO 100 gives two important benefits; you have lots of preserved highlights (many, many stops above metered ISO 200,000 gray), and extremely small losslessly compressed RAW files where there is little or nothing in the potential extended highlights.

That's the ideal. But Canon is far from it at present.

Ideally, if you had a system with minimal read noise, you'd shoot everything at ISO 25 or less, then push digitally as far as you need, losing 1 stop of DR for every stop pushed, with the same result as shooting at a higher ISO in the first place. In actual fact, you needn't even lose the 1 stop of DR per stop pushed, since you can push different parts of the image by different amounts, as needed. Nikon/Sony is fairly close to this at the moment, while all sensors are close to this at high ISO (i.e. shooting at ISO 25600 is much the same as shooting at ISO 6400 and pushing 2 stops).

If the 5D4 had the same DR as the 5D3, it would be no worse off than Nikon and others where many of its proponents seem to use it - at ISO 1600 and above. It's the flattening of the curve below that which really hurts Canon sensors and makes them suboptimal for landscapes, studio work, architecture and shooting things that don't move much. But, for a high-ISO action camera, that doesn't hurt much.




  
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Feb 13, 2015 15:49 |  #149

Just wondering, what MKIV is going to be now that we know what 5Ds is? Actually, when I started the discussion, I had no clue Canon will introduce something like 5Ds. I hope MKIV is still coming. I am a strange niche... I only do landscapes and non studio people photography.

I think I only want a better DR from MKIV. Class leading ideally....can be 30+ MP.


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Post edited over 4 years ago by guntoter. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 13, 2015 18:01 |  #150

light_pilgrim wrote in post #17430641 (external link)
Just wondering, what MKIV is going to be now that we know what 5Ds is? Actually, when I started the discussion, I had no clue Canon will introduce something like 5Ds. I hope MKIV is still coming. I am a strange niche... I only do landscapes and non studio people photography.

I think I only want a better DR from MKIV. Class leading ideally....can be 30+ MP.

I will attempt to answer that. Us sports & wildlife/birders need a wonderful FF too. Now the 5Ds is fantastic for those who relish the super high MP, but for the remainder of us, maybe not so.

Now the 5D3 is a great FF, but it is getting along in years, and having higher ISO performance, AF like the 7D2, fairly high FPS, maybe somewhat higher MP (still in the 20's), and other of the newer bells and whistles would be really nice in a 5D4. That could still keep it in the realm of sports (especially indoor sports) and wildlife/birding.

I am hoping to get a 5D3 or perhaps a camera like the 5D4 if it had features like I was describing.


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What 5D MK IV SHOULD be to stay competitive
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