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Thread started 03 Jan 2015 (Saturday) 23:48
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Indoor Ice Hockey CnC and help greatly wanted. First time.

 
Butters916
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Jan 03, 2015 23:48 |  #1

Well I want crit but I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. My 70-200 f4 probably isnt going to cut it for this but I'm just not at the point where I can afford the 2.8. Got any tips on something I can improve on until then? Im quite unhappy with the noise and the 7D isnt the best at high iso. I did the best I could in lightroom. Anyways here is a few :/. Thanks guys.


IMAGE: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8607/16004300650_8894748238_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/qofe​17  (external link) Final-1715 (external link) by Chris Boettin (external link), on Flickr
IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7571/16190841852_96fd0fbff3_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/qEJi​cJ  (external link) Final-2014 (external link) by Chris Boettin (external link), on Flickr
IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7494/15571818743_edb56d9dec_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pJ2D​cv  (external link) Final-2042 (external link) by Chris Boettin (external link), on Flickr



  
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JeffreyG
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Post edited over 6 years ago by JeffreyG.
     
Jan 04, 2015 08:58 |  #2

They images are too dark, underexposed. All of the detail in the jersey's is lost to shadow and the noise is made much worse by being underexposed.

I pulled the first image up in LR, and the brightest area of the white ice reads ~85% RGB. I pulled the image up one full stop and got the ice reading ~95%, which us where it should be. That shot was f/4, 1/400 and ISO3200.

Without changing equipment, that should should have been at least f/4, 1/400 and ISO6400, and since I think 1/400 is too slow I would have shot it at f/4, 1/800 and ISO 12800.

The faster 70-200/2.8 lens would obviously allow a correctly exposed shot at f/2.8, 1/800 and ISO6400.

I don't know if the 7D is manageable at that ISO level. I looked to use images to see how much I could do with noise reduction, but the athletes lack detail. I think the first shot is front focused, the last shot is back focused and the middle shot probably is just very soft due to motion blur. The last shot is the best of the bunch for having detail, so I brightened it and applied NR. Overall it clears up for the regular looking noise, but there are flecks of hot pink shot through the image. I've never experienced noise like that except when shooting long exposures (like, several hours) so I'm not sure if that is typical of the 7D or what.

Also, people will not be able to post edits to your shots unless you allow image editing.


My personal stuff:http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jngirbach/sets/ (external link)
I use a Canon 5DIII and a Sony A7rIII

  
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wallstreetoneil
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Post edited over 6 years ago by wallstreetoneil.
     
Jan 04, 2015 10:46 |  #3

JeffreyG wrote in post #17365357 (external link)
They images are too dark, underexposed. All of the detail in the jersey's is lost to shadow and the noise is made much worse by being underexposed.

I pulled the first image up in LR, and the brightest area of the white ice reads ~85% RGB. I pulled the image up one full stop and got the ice reading ~95%, which us where it should be. That shot was f/4, 1/400 and ISO3200.

Without changing equipment, that should should have been at least f/4, 1/400 and ISO6400, and since I think 1/400 is too slow I would have shot it at f/4, 1/800 and ISO 12800.

The faster 70-200/2.8 lens would obviously allow a correctly exposed shot at f/2.8, 1/800 and ISO6400.

I don't know if the 7D is manageable at that ISO level. I looked to use images to see how much I could do with noise reduction, but the athletes lack detail. I think the first shot is front focused, the last shot is back focused and the middle shot probably is just very soft due to motion blur. The last shot is the best of the bunch for having detail, so I brightened it and applied NR. Overall it clears up for the regular looking noise, but there are flecks of hot pink shot through the image. I've never experienced noise like that except when shooting long exposures (like, several hours) so I'm not sure if that is typical of the 7D or what.

Also, people will not be able to post edits to your shots unless you allow image editing.


^^^ all of this is spot on and those hot pink specs are weird (never seen them in my hockey pictures)

The other thing you can and should consider is using a faster prime (1.4 / 1.8) and just shooting in one end at a time - this will allow faster shutters (1/1000) and ISO 3200 to be used.


At minimum I would shoot at ISO 6400 and then learn more about what is possible in Lightroom, or other, to:
1) increase exposure
2) after increasing exposure, bring down the whites
3) increase the blacks and shadows to bring texture to the darker areas
4) watch a video on Youtube about Noise Reduction in Lightroom (Color, Luminance, Detail) & (Sharpening and Masking)

I downloaded your 3rd picture and:
- increased exposure by 1.15
- increase blacks +22
- increased shadows +3
- decreased whites by -61
- increased Clarity by +10

Sharpening 76 with Masking 40
Noise Reduction - Luminance 80, Detail 70, Color 25


IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7579/16196258575_a0abe14bf4_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/qFd4​pv  (external link) hockey_pic_edit (external link) by wallstreetoneil (external link), on Flickr

Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

  
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Butters916
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Jan 06, 2015 02:37 |  #4

Thanks for the input guys!




  
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fk6065
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Jan 06, 2015 20:06 |  #5

One of the hardest lighting conditions to shoot in.




  
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GoCanes
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Jan 10, 2015 14:35 |  #6

I had to bite the bullet and go with the 2.8 lens over the 4.0 to shoot hockey. I use the Sigma older version and it is great. It makes a very big improvement. Also shoot tighter. Hockey is fast and you will miss shots but the ones you get will pop.

I also went with the 7D and that seemed to make a big difference. I have read so many posts that say the camera does not improve the photos but for an amateur like myself, I really feel the 7D was worth the extra money.


Canon 7D, Sigma 17-70, Canon 50 1.8, Sigma Ex DC HSM 10-20mm, Canon 430 EX II, Sigma 70-210 2.8
http://www.flickr.com/​photos/dantoniophotos/ (external link)

  
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Butters916
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Jan 12, 2015 02:41 |  #7

GoCanes wrote in post #17375804 (external link)
I had to bite the bullet and go with the 2.8 lens over the 4.0 to shoot hockey. I use the Sigma older version and it is great. It makes a very big improvement. Also shoot tighter. Hockey is fast and you will miss shots but the ones you get will pop.

I also went with the 7D and that seemed to make a big difference. I have read so many posts that say the camera does not improve the photos but for an amateur like myself, I really feel the 7D was worth the extra money.

Yea man I originally had a sigma 2.8 VC. Loved it but was a little soft in the edges. When I got my 7D i got the Canon f4 step up image quality from the sigma but lost a lot of versatility not being 2.8. I wish I would have just stayed with the sigma till I was ready for the Canon. I will probably picking up the 2.8 ISii within the next few months. The 7D is an awesome camera but I also borrow my friends 5Dii from time to time and its low light processing is amazing and it makes me realize how much worse the 7D is for low light. Still I love my 7D solely for the high speed shutter.




  
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samsen
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Jan 12, 2015 02:50 |  #8

Yes difficult situation to deal with light.
Try selective pp change and smart to underexpose a tad initially.


Weak retaliates,
Strong Forgives,
Intelligent Ignores!
Samsen
Picture editing OK

  
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wallstreetoneil
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Jan 12, 2015 10:18 |  #9

john crossley wrote in post #17378378 (external link)
You are still able to get acceptable images with the gear you already have with a little bit of judicious processing.


^^^ I agree with this - and I think the edit is much better than the original

I tried and I fixed the hole in the sock ;-)a

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7535/16077174920_c2190d07b0_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/quFH​Z3  (external link) Jan_2015 (external link) by wallstreetoneil (external link), on Flickr

Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

  
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finnbay
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Jan 12, 2015 14:18 |  #10

All good info here. I like to feel right inside the action so I tend to shoot a little tighter than this.




  
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Butters916
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Jan 12, 2015 22:36 |  #11

Nice went back and did some more editing to get more on point. I think I have a better understanding what i need to do editing wise now. Yes I do agree the tighter shot looks much better.




  
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warrenl
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Jan 13, 2015 13:35 |  #12

Hi

Are you shooting through the glass? If so that is what may be causing the highlights on the ice on the boot right of the second photo




  
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wallstreetoneil
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Jan 13, 2015 14:17 |  #13

warrenl wrote in post #17380637 (external link)
Hi

Are you shooting through the glass? If so that is what may be causing the highlights on the ice on the boot right of the second photo

If he isn't shooting through the glass, then by his angle, he is standing on the ice surface - and yes those are 'glass' relections.


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

  
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Butters916
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Jan 20, 2015 23:43 |  #14

Yes I'm shooting through the glass.




  
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JohnTrav
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Jan 26, 2015 08:24 |  #15

I think you captured some nice shots. I made all the same mistakes my first time shooting ice hockey. On my 7D when I shoot ice hockey i set it to overexpose by like 2/3 a stop. And sometimes that is not even enough. Hopefully you can get back out there soon and shoot some more. I'd like to see what you can capture with all the advise everyone has offered.


Canon 5D Mark III - Canon 5D Mark II - Canon 7D - Canon 70-200 f/2.8L - Canon 24-70 f/2.8L - Canon 17-40L - Canon 85 f/1.8 - Canon 50 f/1.4 - Canon 580 exii (x2) - rokinon 8mm fishey

  
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Indoor Ice Hockey CnC and help greatly wanted. First time.
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