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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 03 Feb 2015 (Tuesday) 06:36
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ND Filters

 
Schagen
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Feb 03, 2015 06:36 |  #1

Hi,

I have a Hoya grad ND10 Filter. I have read somewhere about people stacking them and combining them? If so what filter would be good to purchase a long with this one? I want to be able to achieve the blurred clouds in broad daylight look over water but with the current one I have they seem over exposed if I slow the shutter speed long enough for the clouds to appear blurred.

I'm new to these filters so any info or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!




  
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DGStinner
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Feb 03, 2015 08:27 |  #2

What aperture are you shooting at when they appear overexposed?




  
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vraspagraphix
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Feb 03, 2015 09:17 |  #3

ND filters only reduce the overall exposure. Try a polarizing filter instead.




  
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RileyNZL
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Feb 03, 2015 12:39 as a reply to  @ vraspagraphix's post |  #4

Overall exposure sounds like what they're trying to reduce, so they can use a longer shutter speed.

A couple options, another 10 stop filter would work, or you could get 3 or 5 stop filter, which you could also use by themselves for when you don't need a full 10 stops. A polarizer could help, as they do tend to reduce the exposure by a stop or two. You could try a graduated filter to darken just the sky a bit as well.


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Schagen
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Feb 03, 2015 18:50 as a reply to  @ DGStinner's post |  #5

about 16 to 22




  
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Schagen
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Feb 03, 2015 18:52 as a reply to  @ vraspagraphix's post |  #6

polarising filter on top of the nd10?




  
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Schagen
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Feb 03, 2015 18:57 as a reply to  @ RileyNZL's post |  #7

I don't completely understand filters yet. Is the 10 stop not darker than the 3 or 5? and can you screw them on top of the other filter?




  
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Dan ­ Marchant
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Dan Marchant. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 03, 2015 23:56 |  #8

Schagen wrote in post #17414105 (external link)
polarising filter on top of the nd10?

Ignore that comment - {waves had in Jedi fashion} that is not the filter you're looking for.

Are you sure you are using an ND Grad - as in a Graduated Neutral Density filter? That means that the filter effect is graduated across the filter (is stronger in the top half of the filter and weaker in the bottom). This filter is primarily used to balance bright skies and darker land in a single exposure. The graduated filter blocks more light at the top of the frame and less and less towards the bottom. Problem with this is that, if the scene is all bright (ground is bathed in bright sunlight) then the lower part of the frame may end up over-exposed.

For long exposures, where you want to block a uniform amount of light across the whole frame so you can increase exposure times, you want a plain old Neutral Density filter. Which one depends on how much light you want to block. Before we discuss that lets look at naming confusion.

I have a Hoya grad ND10 Filter

There is no ND10 filter. I think you may be confusing the ND number notation with the f/stop rating. There is an ND2, ND4, ND8, ND16, ND32, ND64, ND100 (don't ask), ND128..... all the way up to ND8192. One of the ones I skipped over is the ND1024 (also called ND1000). This is probably the one you have as its f/stop rating is 10 stops. You could look at this page about ND filters on wiki http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Neutral_density​_filter (external link). It may make things clearer or it may just give you a headache, which is what it did for me when I was trying to buy my first filters. On it you will see that there are actually three different systems of ND rating number which may make it confusing when trying to compare different brands that use the different notations. I bought an H&Y ND1000 filter (10 stops) but no where on the packet does is actually say the f/stop rating. Makes it rather hard to know how that compares with an ND2.7 :( - probably a good idea to print out the wiki chart and carry it with you until you have memorised every detail.

"Loraine.... I am your density".
So which filter do you need? That depends on how much light you need to block. Most people buy an assortment of differently rated filters. You don't need everyone one as you can increase or decrease light with your camera settings, but many people have two or three different ones (ND4, ND64, ND1024 for example). You can then use multiple different filters together in order to get a greater stopping effect.

Standard vs variable?
Some ND filters out there are variable ND. That means they can be adjusted to block more or less light. You need to be careful when buying these. many of the cheaper ones are that well engineered and don't block all wavelengths of light evenly. The result is your shots may have a noticeable colour caste. I made this mistake when I first bought one. It was so bad it went in the bin and I bought an H&Y 6 stop variable (they are a small local brand here in Hong Kong that are reasonably priced and well engineered).

PS Bonus points to the first person to name the movie referenced above.


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Schagen
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Feb 04, 2015 00:18 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #9

hi thanks for your help, Hoya grad ND10 Filter is exactly what it says on the casing. I think it is a 3 stop. I had a look this morning and im pretty sure it is. I think I want to buy another grad filter to stack on it.




  
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Dan ­ Marchant
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Dan Marchant.
     
Feb 04, 2015 01:01 |  #10

Schagen wrote in post #17414489 (external link)
hi thanks for your help, Hoya grad ND10 Filter is exactly what it says on the casing.

Yes it appears they use a non-standard naming system just to make it even easier for us. It is indeed a 3 stop, varying to 1 stop filter so it should be an ND8 - ND2.

I think I want to buy another grad filter to stack on it.

Why do you think that? What exactly are you trying to achieve?


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Schagen
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Feb 04, 2015 01:30 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #11

I really want to achieve the look of the blurred clouds in my landscape photography and not just the water.




  
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Nortonski
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Feb 04, 2015 01:32 |  #12

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17414477 (external link)
"Loraine.... I am your density".

Back to the Future - good ole George McFly ;)


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Feb 04, 2015 01:51 |  #13

Schagen wrote in post #17414560 (external link)
I really want to achieve the look of the blurred clouds in my landscape photography and not just the water.

So you want both the clouds in the sky and the water on the ground blurred - that says to me that you don't want another graduated filter. As mentioned above they balance the difference in exposure between the sky and ground - you already have that but want to further reduce the light across the whole frame so for that you need a standard ND filter, not a graduated one.

Personally I wouldn't even bother with one graduated ND, especially not a circular screw on. The reason for this is the positioning of the graduation in the centre of the filter. This graduation needs to be positioned on or very near to the horizon, where the transition between light and dark is. This dramatically limits your compositional options because the horizon always needs to be in the middle of the frame. Almost every lesson on composition will tell you that the horizon should be on the top third or bottom third on the frame. Only on rare occasions, for specific reasons, would you want the horizon in the middle. This means to get the composition you want you will need to shoot wide and crop a big slice off the top or bottom of your image.

My suggestion would be to buy a selection of standard ND filters or a 10 stop and a very good quality variable ND. Then either shoot a couple of different exposures and blend them or set an exposure half way between the sky and the ground and use Lightroom's excellent (local) adjustment brush to balance them.


Dan Marchant
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Vaun808
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Feb 04, 2015 02:35 |  #14

Sounds like you might just need a Big Stopper




  
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vk2gwk
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Feb 04, 2015 03:16 |  #15

Stacking filters creates (very) strong vignetting. Better to use one real strong one instead of a stack of filters.


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