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Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
ppmax
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Feb 05, 2015 21:55 as a reply to  @ post 17417543 |  #1666

I appreciate that, for sure. If anything I've probably become less critical than I used to be due to feedback about what I would consider a miss (or near miss) vs what what others would. I want every pic I take to sparkle...to be nailed. I suppose this expectation is somewhat unrealistic. The trick it would seem is to find where the line is between good and good enough...

While I'm not able to right now, I'd be happy to send you or post some full res images of what I would consider a hit, miss, and near miss...just for comparisons sake.

Ps great to hear that you have some CPS dudes in your corner working your case now!

PP


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jingler
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Feb 05, 2015 22:03 as a reply to  @ post 17417306 |  #1667

Iam on my 4th body as well, previous 3 had mainly focus issues 10 or so keepers out of 50 shots, some front focus some back focus. used same lens on original 7d and 5 d mk3 no problems with focus.
Bought 2 bodies from Wex returned them within the return period (they had 5 open box 7d mk2s in there used sales at once). Bought 1 body from an ebay seller had same issues again was able to use there returns policy.
I thought that's it leave it alone for know.
I finally relented and bought a 7d mk2 body from another ebay seller and so far (2 weeks) it has been a completely different camera, high keeper rate a real pleasure to use.
Both bodys from the ebay seller are probably grey imports but saved approx £400 on each and so far the 4th body is working very well.

Just my experience.

thanks.




  
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mccamli
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Feb 06, 2015 06:08 |  #1668

I'm on my first 7DII. My local store had none in stock but managed to get one in for me.

My initial thoughts were quite positive, it's breathed new life into my Tamron 150-600mm and whilst I've not had much time to check tracking accuracy the still shot focussing seems consistent.

Unfortunately it's front focussing by about 10 steps on the three lenses I tested. One of my lens & TC combos requires an MFA of 14 in the same direction so yesterday it headed off to the local (4,000km away) Canon service centre. I wouldn't have been able to use it for the next three weeks in any case so I thought I'd give them a chance to adjust it. Given some of the horror stories in this thread I figure if an MFA adjustment is all that's required I'm on to a comparative winner. I'm not sure our consumer laws would let me exchange it in any case...they're not the strongest!

On the plus side AF seemed very snappy compared to my 7D and the low light focussing was a revelation. With the MFA adjustment it seemed accurate and consistent but I guess time will tell in that regard. My Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 OS is so much happier on the 7DII.

Additionally the picture quality is much improved, I love the way I can lift the shadows a fair bit without destroying the image and the noise profile is so much more pleasant to work with. Granted, it's nothing like I can do on my A7r but it's night and day compared to my 7D.

Despite the fact that it's on its way to the service centre I'm quite hopeful it's a keeper.


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huntersdad
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Feb 06, 2015 06:39 as a reply to  @ mccamli's post |  #1669

nccamli, if I may ask, what lens and what TC?


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mccamli
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Feb 06, 2015 07:35 as a reply to  @ huntersdad's post |  #1670

The lens and TC combo that needs a 14 MFA adjustment is a 70-300L with a kenko 1.4x. The 770-300L by itself needs about 6


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gschlact
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Feb 06, 2015 08:35 |  #1671

huntersdad wrote in post #17417536 (external link)
I'll test them next time I'm out, which will be next weekend. There's a train of thought developing that the MkII superteles are already a little "hyper" on the focusing, meaning it seems that they are trying too hard sometimes. Combine that with a camera with speed in focusing and "hyper" tracking and you would have problems.

I have not kept stats as they would be so bad at this point it wouldn't even be funny. My keeper rate with the camera is well under 10%, I'm guessing under 5%. And that's being generous in keeping some shots that I might would otherwise delete. I will say that when the combo performs, it is knock out good - colors are good, sharpness is excellent, noise is well controlled. But when it doesn't it is infuriating and frustrating.

As a side note, I did hear back from the CPS rep who reviewed my files and said there was definitely an issue with focusing. He took the serial number of my 600II and 1.4x as they have now had 2 CPS members with major problems with that combo (pretty sure I know who the other is). Since I exchanged it, we're going to repeat the process - shoot, send pics, let them review and go from there. He's hoping to avoid me having to send my 600 in and hoping they are able to compile some data and determine if there is a problem within a sect of serial numbers of the lens or TCs or if there is just something in the camera that's off. They have tested the body with a 600I and TCs (v. II and III) and have had no problems whatsoever.

PP-
Don't your stats also include a dose of subjectivity? For example, you include Yellow as a keeper with green. Can you remind us your definition of Yellow? Also, I think in general there needs to be a more clear indication when some claims OOF. (not referring to HUNTERSDad or PP). To explain, there is a difference between OOAF (motion blur, and/or other mechanical caused softness) and what most people should be saying is Out Of AUTO Focus. The difference is that OOF implies that there is not resulting plane achieving the camera-lens' maximal sharpness; whereas OOAF implies that the plane of maximal sharpness did not land where intended. There are different causes for each. Ppmax's original skier AF was oof caused by IS settling inducing mechanical mini blur. HUNTERSDAD has been having OOAF.

Traditionally, for phase detect Af mfa has been used as a lens offset to correct OOAF. As on moved from static to ai servo the tracking algorithms determine and accomplish the ability to maintain AF. This tracking is accomplished by software and the ability of the lense to respond to the cameras commands. Ai servo that works for static objects should always work for moving objects assuming Af point place on subject well And adequate Case settings and some other camera settings are proper. If not, it would point to the user's choice of settings, or some other decision impacting tracking. If not user, it would have to do with the specific lens, despite whether the lens is perfect on another body or body type. I would not expect multiple different lenses to work on a given body producing sharp ai servo static focus, but not for moving objects without there being a user software error as 99% cause, unless with exact same condition those same lenses and settings worked on another 7dii which would then print to an electrical/interface issue with lenses in first body. . This strongly supports the rising theory that HUNTERSDad issue is related to the specific lens (or combo) in use, and leaves open potential that it is a lens model. After all, what has been consistent is that he has had at least 4 bodies giving same behavior OOAF with same testing and common lens in each.




  
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Kickflipkid687
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Feb 06, 2015 08:51 as a reply to  @ mccamli's post |  #1672

Did you send it to California? They got mine and sent it straight to New Jersey it looked like.

I'm still wondering if I'll have to send it in again.. but I hope not. Need to test more AI Servo worthy shots. Been doing too much static stuff lately.


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huntersdad
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Feb 06, 2015 08:53 |  #1673

gschlact, what would cause the issues I'm having with just my 600II and TCs, but not with other lenses/TC combos? For example, my 100-400 with the 1.4x is very, very good, as is my 70-200 with either TC on this body. Just curious. The thought did enter my head yesterday that the 600 and TCs was the common factor with all of them, but I know several members on FM who are using the same combo without any issue ever. What could cause the problem with my copy but not others? Wouldn't that indicate a problem with my specific 600 and my TCs as opposed to the camera?

BTW, if that's the case, you guys can thank me for 3 refurbs when they come out.


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huntersdad
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Feb 06, 2015 08:54 |  #1674

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17418219 (external link)
Did you send it to California? They got mine and sent it straight to New Jersey it looked like.

I'm still wondering if I'll have to send it in again.. but I hope not. Need to test more AI Servo worthy shots. Been doing too much static stuff lately.

If you are asking me, mine went to Newport News.


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ppmax
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Feb 06, 2015 13:21 |  #1675

gschlact wrote in post #17418197 (external link)
PP-
Don't your stats also include a dose of subjectivity? For example, you include Yellow as a keeper with green. Can you remind us your definition of Yellow? Also, I think in general there needs to be a more clear indication when some claims OOF. (not referring to HUNTERSDad or PP). To explain, there is a difference between OOAF (motion blur, and/or other mechanical caused softness) and what most people should be saying is Out Of AUTO Focus. The difference is that OOF implies that there is not resulting plane achieving the camera-lens' maximal sharpness; whereas OOAF implies that the plane of maximal sharpness did not land where intended. There are different causes for each. Ppmax's original skier AF was oof caused by IS settling inducing mechanical mini blur. HUNTERSDAD has been having OOAF.

Traditionally, for phase detect Af mfa has been used as a lens offset to correct OOAF. As on moved from static to ai servo the tracking algorithms determine and accomplish the ability to maintain AF. This tracking is accomplished by software and the ability of the lense to respond to the cameras commands. Ai servo that works for static objects should always work for moving objects assuming Af point place on subject well And adequate Case settings and some other camera settings are proper. If not, it would point to the user's choice of settings, or some other decision impacting tracking. If not user, it would have to do with the specific lens, despite whether the lens is perfect on another body or body type. I would not expect multiple different lenses to work on a given body producing sharp ai servo static focus, but not for moving objects without there being a user software error as 99% cause, unless with exact same condition those same lenses and settings worked on another 7dii which would then print to an electrical/interface issue with lenses in first body. . This strongly supports the rising theory that HUNTERSDad issue is related to the specific lens (or combo) in use, and leaves open potential that it is a lens model. After all, what has been consistent is that he has had at least 4 bodies giving same behavior OOAF with same testing and common lens in each.

Hi gschlact--

The only subjective part of the stats are if something is in focus or not...and I don't believe there is any absolute method that could be used to eliminate this. Having said this, although the process of grading focus is subjective, one can typically answer a simple question like "was focus achieved on the desired target?" My possible answers were Yes, No, Kinda (Green, Red, Yellow). I defined the "Kinda" category as a being a shot that was soft at 100% but "acceptable" at 50% or 25% zoom. Anyone can argue with this...but at least my metric was consistent.

I totally agree with the points you make about using the appropriate Case (and other settings) for the action: I posted about this many pages ago. In summary, due to my familiarity with the behavior of the 5D3 I assumed that I could use similar settings and technique across cameras with the 7D2. While this is generally true, it has become clear to me (through this process of collecting and analyzing my photos) that the 7D2 is it's own beast and needs to be used in a manner consistent with it's own features, functions, and strengths and weaknesses. Frankly, despite the similarity of the UI presented in menus to the user, the AF performance of the 7D2 is quite different vs. the 5D3 and the user needs to recognize this and adapt to the tool's behavior. I think an appropriate analogy is the Copy/Paste functionality provided in Windows vs. that provided in OS X: Generally, they do the same things...but there are significant differences between how each vendor has implemented these functions, and the user would do well to learn how to use both to maximum benefit.

Regarding:

Ppmax's original skier AF was oof caused by IS settling inducing mechanical mini blur. HUNTERSDAD has been having OOAF.

IS was indeed causing some lateral blurring--this was a lesson learned, but it was not the cause of all of my OOAF shots. I can post plenty of shots taken with IS off to prove this ;)

Thx
PP


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gschlact
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Feb 06, 2015 14:38 |  #1676

huntersdad wrote in post #17418222 (external link)
gschlact, what would cause the issues I'm having with just my 600II and TCs, but not with other lenses/TC combos? For example, my 100-400 with the 1.4x is very, very good, as is my 70-200 with either TC on this body. Just curious. The thought did enter my head yesterday that the 600 and TCs was the common factor with all of them, but I know several members on FM who are using the same combo without any issue ever. What could cause the problem with my copy but not others? Wouldn't that indicate a problem with my specific 600 and my TCs as opposed to the camera?

BTW, if that's the case, you guys can thank me for 3 refurbs when they come out.

HD- Canon is surely much better equipped at figuring it out. If it were a single body, and all the other lenses you mention as working, that would then likely point to some electromechanical or software issue on the 600 lens itself Or that single body. If it worked on other 7diis, that would indicate your body is the fault, but Once you say it has been multiple 7diibodies,, I would say it is either that specific lens or model, but not specific body. I would also believe that your specific lens/TC pair should alone be flown to Canon to test on their 7dii. (you have basically confirmed issue should reappear for them). Why not keep your 7dii and enjoy it? (I do realize that sending your 7dii would remove any risk I. Them not duplicating but might be worth it and derive enjoyment).

We feel your pain, but we will keep an asterisk next to your name for recognition as the founder of the 600ii+tc issue. ߘ°ߘ




  
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Kickflipkid687
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Feb 07, 2015 16:27 |  #1677

I was just messing with my Tamron 150-600 and the 7D II.

At 200mm, it was very very fast and accurate/sharp. But when I zoomed to 400 or higher, the AF definitely slowed alot.
Actually at 200mm, probably from more light/wider FOV, I could focus from 10ft to 50ft or so and back pretty much instantly without issue.

But at 400+mm, I could lock onto something quick, but it almost always would not even attempt to re-focus if it was a distance too different.

So I could focus quickly to 12ft away, then easily to 8ft, but when trying to go to 50ft after that, it would do nothing, in AI Servo.

Do you guys see the same behavior on your 500/600 F/4 lenses, or is this a thing with the Tamron?


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Feb 07, 2015 18:10 |  #1678

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17416404 (external link)
This guy is getting some really great shots. Although I wonder what his keeper rate is.

https://www.flickr.com …761173624/in/ph​otostream/ (external link)

My keeper rate sucks. I have alot of missed shots when it should be right on, but I push on until I get it.
I love the camera, no doubt.

Will be sending it back to Canon for a check up, once I figure a way around their "we don't take no packages from overseas" policy.



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Archibald
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Feb 07, 2015 18:28 |  #1679

kesterc wrote in post #17420698 (external link)
Will be sending it back to Canon for a check up, once I figure a way around their "we don't take no packages from overseas" policy.

Over which sea? The policy of Canon US is that they will ship repaired items only to US addresses. But they will accept an item from anywhere I think - they accepted mine, from Canada. But you need a US address for the return.


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Bianchi
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Feb 07, 2015 19:08 |  #1680

Huntersdad, good to see you returned #3, I knew there were issues from the pictures you posted. Please tell me you didn't take another camera from the same vendor. Hopefully you tried my suggestion a few pages back.


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