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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
MalVeauX
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Feb 08, 2015 15:14 |  #301

Hrm,

I'll pass on these.

When I saw they were doing a high MP sensor, I figured the ISO performance and range would take a hit.

I'm glad they finally got on the no AA filter wagon though.

Very best,


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Mornnb
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Feb 08, 2015 15:27 |  #302

Submariner wrote in post #17422133 (external link)
But Canon might have reserved the high DR variant for the 1DXS! 50 MP - ie the perfect Studio, Commercial, and Landscape camera - plus a fantastic all round camera for the well off amateurs. That would justfy the R&D and they could sell it for £6,000!

The dynamic range is an issue of patents. Sony owns the patents for on-sensor analog to digital conversion. Canon does the analog to digital conversion off sensor in the Digic chip. The much longer analog electric pathways pick up more noise at low ISO and hence impact dynamic range.
As Sony owns the patents, Canon can not implement on sensor analog to digital conversion. Canon would need to purchase Sony sensors to produce a product with competitive dynamic range.


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Feb 08, 2015 15:36 |  #303

Mornnb wrote in post #17422165 (external link)
The dynamic range is an issue of patents. Sony owns the patents for on-sensor analog to digital conversion. Canon does the analog to digital conversion off sensor in the Digic chip. The much longer analog electric pathways pick up more noise at low ISO and hence impact dynamic range.
As Sony owns the patents, Canon can not implement on sensor analog to digital conversion. Canon would need to purchase Sony sensors to produce a product with competitive dynamic range.

Then why do other companies like e.g. Fujifilm or Samsung also produce cameras which have a greater dynamic range at base ISO than Canon?


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Feb 08, 2015 16:10 |  #304

An interesting tidbit has shown up on http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/C​anon_5ds.html (external link)

2015 February 8th

An interesting comment (thanks), coming via testing a pre-release 5Dsr with a test version of DPP4. Low ISO DR is put at 1.5-2 stops better than the 1D X, but high ISO performance (6400) falls marginally behind the 7Dmk2. The sensor is similar to the 7D2 technology, but has apparently been tuned to maximise low ISO performance.



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welshwizard1971
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Feb 08, 2015 16:18 |  #305

All of this talk about jumping ship to Nikon or Sony, I went and looked at a few Nikon forums. No talk of jumping ship to Sony there, but, lots of talk about jumping ship to Canon because of better handling, better files, better glass, better ISO performance...... Is the grass really greener on the other side??


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Feb 08, 2015 16:21 |  #306

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17422268 (external link)
All of this talk about jumping ship to Nikon or Sony, I went and looked at a few Nikon forums. No talk of jumping ship to Sony there, but, lots of talk about jumping ship to Canon because of better handling, better files, better glass, better ISO performance...... Is the grass really greener on the other side??

A few good discussions in here: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=143


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Eyal
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Feb 08, 2015 16:22 |  #307

jocau wrote in post #17422188 (external link)
Then why do other companies like e.g. Fujifilm or Samsung also produce cameras which have a greater dynamic range at base ISO than Canon?

Cross patents?
Samsung is using sensors which were partially developed by sony. Fuji's x-trans came to be with panasonic.
Canon are most likely trying to cut the cost by developing their own sensor.
Don't forget that they have other uses for these sensors beside just their cameras. So developing their own sensors also helps them use that technology in other places.


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Feb 08, 2015 17:04 |  #308

In case anyone missed it fellow named David Norton,Artist. Is on Facebook. if you want to see some of the photos he has taken with one of these cameras.Read the comments some interesting questions asked.Of course the big ? not answered but it think this photo tells some of the story.https://www.facebook.c​om …101526671744265​26/?type=1 (external link)


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Feb 08, 2015 19:07 |  #309

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17422268 (external link)
All of this talk about jumping ship to Nikon or Sony, I went and looked at a few Nikon forums. No talk of jumping ship to Sony there, but, lots of talk about jumping ship to Canon because of better handling, better files, better glass, better ISO performance...... Is the grass really greener on the other side??

My friend an ex 1DX owners only complaint is alledgedly the D810 cant store the equivalent of C1 etc.
Apparently it loses them. Only a little thing but it drives him crazy - and he says the new Canon Speedlights are way ahead. But He adores the files he gets.


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Feb 08, 2015 19:10 |  #310

jocau wrote in post #17422188 (external link)
Then why do other companies like e.g. Fujifilm or Samsung also produce cameras which have a greater dynamic range at base ISO than Canon?

Pretty valid point!


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Feb 08, 2015 19:12 |  #311

sssc wrote in post #17422371 (external link)
In case anyone missed it fellow named David Norton,Artist. Is on Facebook. if you want to see some of the photos he has taken with one of these cameras.Read the comments some interesting questions asked.Of course the big ? not answered but it think this photo tells some of the story.https://www.facebook.c​om …101526671744265​26/?type=1 (external link)

Very nice image!
Maybe we need to see the real test results - that was nice. :)


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Feb 08, 2015 19:56 |  #312

So, how is lens resolving power fitting into this new sensor? For example, the 135mm f/2L is 43 lpmm at its best, but this sensor seems to be more than that?


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mfunnell
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Feb 08, 2015 19:56 |  #313

jocau wrote in post #17422188 (external link)
Then why do other companies like e.g. Fujifilm or Samsung also produce cameras which have a greater dynamic range at base ISO than Canon?

I don't know from Samsung, but in Fujifilm's case they do it by using Sony sensors, at least for their X-series cameras. They may put an X-Trans array in front of it, rather than a Bayer array, but my understanding is that it's all Sony underneath.

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Feb 08, 2015 21:09 |  #314

Submariner wrote in post #17422133 (external link)
But Canon might have reserved the high DR variant for the 1DXS! 50 MP - ie the perfect Studio, Commercial, and Landscape camera - plus a fantastic all round camera for the well off amateurs. That would justfy the R&D and they could sell it for £6,000!
Following their precedent of having 2 5Ds, they could even pop in 4K Video and charge £7,000 for that version. And not kill the revenue stresms of the ID- C cameras.
That would shut every one up! If you want the ultimate we have it - you just have to pay for it lol
If its possible they could even expand that for the Action Sports crowd - if its possible to push through those files at 14 fps?

After all if they put amazing DR in the 5DS! For £3,500 who would pay the extra for the 1D variants.
Just thinking aloud. It also stops people jumping ship to Nikon while they work out how to deliver these variant.
Well thats what I would do if I were them.


Exactly.. Canon is playing us all like fools, They are waiting until everyone sells all their canon gear, before announcing the above, then they will make more when everyone has to rebuy all their glass, and new camera. Pure Genius


---------------Camera, Lens, Flash stuff.. but still wanting more

  
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Aswald
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Feb 08, 2015 21:42 |  #315

sssc wrote in post #17422371 (external link)
In case anyone missed it fellow named David Norton,Artist. Is on Facebook. if you want to see some of the photos he has taken with one of these cameras.Read the comments some interesting questions asked.Of course the big ? not answered but it think this photo tells some of the story.https://www.facebook.c​om …101526671744265​26/?type=1 (external link)

Nice picture!

If anything, 50mp is going to show up flaws in technique much more unforgivingly than the Nikon's 36mp stables.




  
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced
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