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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
Aswald
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Feb 08, 2015 21:44 |  #316

light_pilgrim wrote in post #17421964 (external link)
It is precisely what I thought about the camera - the prime prospect if the commercial studio photography and people that are either using or want to use MF. It is not really for landscape photographers due to DR limitations.

Canon commented that the DR would be similar to the 5Dmk3. When I looked at the pics produced by the 5DsR, it does remind me of the 5D3....a gigantic 5D3 file to be exact.




  
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mystik610
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Feb 08, 2015 23:25 |  #317

light_pilgrim wrote in post #17421982 (external link)
I think it will create a small revolution for commercial photography, just like 5DMKII did for video.
We need to see what happens 1 year from now when commercial photographers are going to start using it. It can be a perfect camera for studio and maybe a lot of fashion photographers will start getting it.

It looks like 5D MKIV will be towards PJ and action.

So the gap that Canon has right now is something for Landscape photographers with a very good DR. I would say that Canon covers Commercial/Studio and PJ really well and their week area is Landscape where they are lacking a product similar to D810.

As Sony has shown us with their 36MP sensor, there's absolutely no reason you can't have high resolution AND wide dynamic range. And as Nikon has shown us with the D810, with the right sensor, there's no reason you can't build a camera that can meet the demands of studio photographers, landscapers, wedding photographers and PJ all at once. That's what the 5DIV will be benchmarked against, and its raised the bar pretty high.

We'll see how the 5Ds stacks up against the 50mp exmor that Sony is releasing this year.


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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 00:02 |  #318

Submariner wrote in post #17422133 (external link)
But Canon might have reserved the high DR variant for the 1DXS! 50 MP - ie the perfect Studio, Commercial, and Landscape camera - plus a fantastic all round camera for the well off amateurs. That would justfy the R&D and they could sell it for £6,000!
Following their precedent of having 2 5Ds, they could even pop in 4K Video and charge £7,000 for that version. And not kill the revenue stresms of the ID- C cameras.
That would shut every one up! If you want the ultimate we have it - you just have to pay for it lol
If its possible they could even expand that for the Action Sports crowd - if its possible to push through those files at 14 fps?

After all if they put amazing DR in the 5DS! For £3,500 who would pay the extra for the 1D variants.
Just thinking aloud. It also stops people jumping ship to Nikon while they work out how to deliver these variant.
Well thats what I would do if I were them.

Except that the 1D-style integrated grip doesn't work well for a lot of landscapers, who have to carry their gear up mountains or on luggage-limited regional airlines.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 00:06 |  #319

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17422268 (external link)
All of this talk about jumping ship to Nikon or Sony, I went and looked at a few Nikon forums. No talk of jumping ship to Sony there, but, lots of talk about jumping ship to Canon because of better handling, better files, better glass, better ISO performance...... Is the grass really greener on the other side??

Depends what you shoot.

If you mostly shoot action, events, high-ISO, etc. with a photojournalistic style, and shoot a lot of JPEG, Canon might suit you better, depending on the lenses you prefer.

If you shoot landscapes or studio work (at the moment, anyway, since the 5Dsr isn't out yet) there's no doubt that Nikon is way ahead.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 00:24 |  #320

Aswald wrote in post #17422850 (external link)
Nice picture!

If anything, 50mp is going to show up flaws in technique much more unforgivingly than the Nikon's 36mp stables.

Not too much more.

Linear resolution is 17.8% greater than 36MP, not the 28% increase from going from the 5D3 to A7r/D800e/D810. And most people using this sensor will likely be shooting from a tripod, which is necessary if you want to get the most out of a high-resolution sensor anyway.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 00:36 |  #321

Poe wrote in post #17422257 (external link)
An interesting tidbit has shown up on http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/C​anon_5ds.html (external link)

2015 February 8th

An interesting comment (thanks), coming via testing a pre-release 5Dsr with a test version of DPP4. Low ISO DR is put at 1.5-2 stops better than the 1D X, but high ISO performance (6400) falls marginally behind the 7Dmk2. The sensor is similar to the 7D2 technology, but has apparently been tuned to maximise low ISO performance.

I wonder if that's per-pixel, or across the whole sensor.

Either way, that's very good news for low ISO performance - if it's per-pixel, it means roughly 14-16 stops of DR at low ISO, while, if it's across the whole frame, it means a more believable 13-14 stops.

I find it hard to believe that high ISO performance across the whole sensor will be worse than the 7D2, given that it has the advantage of 2.56x the sensor area. Which leads me to believe that, with the comparison against the 7D2, at least, they're talking about per-pixel performance. Which is still pretty good - it means that I can shoot wildlife at ISO 800-3200 and get good results.

I'm inclined to believe that all the current statements about 'having a similar DR to the 5D3' and so on are coming from marketing rather than engineering - people who would have little idea what DR actually is, let alone its significance - and will reserve my judgment until independent outsiders perform formal testing.




  
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Aswald
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Feb 09, 2015 02:11 |  #322

Shadowblade wrote in post #17423046 (external link)
Not too much more.

Linear resolution is 17.8% greater than 36MP, not the 28% increase from going from the 5D3 to A7r/D800e/D810. And most people using this sensor will likely be shooting from a tripod, which is necessary if you want to get the most out of a high-resolution sensor anyway.

That's a relieve.

I guess, for those going from 36 to 50, not much of an issue. I remember going from 12.8 to 36.3....it was a steep learning curve.

For those looking at higher mp and portability, this 50mp baby is definitely something to consider seriously. Not really fun lugging around a medium format camera around.




  
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Feb 09, 2015 02:30 |  #323

Poe wrote in post #17422257 (external link)
An interesting tidbit has shown up on http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/C​anon_5ds.html (external link)

2015 February 8th An interesting comment (thanks), coming via testing a pre-release 5Dsr with a test version of DPP4. Low ISO DR is put at 1.5-2 stops better than the 1D X, but high ISO performance (6400) falls marginally behind the 7Dmk2. The sensor is similar to the 7D2 technology, but has apparently been tuned to maximise low ISO performance.

Well if that's the case Canon is underselling their new sensor, because 2 stops is how far they are behind the Sony sensor.

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17422268 (external link)
All of this talk about jumping ship to Nikon or Sony, I went and looked at a few Nikon forums. No talk of jumping ship to Sony there, but, lots of talk about jumping ship to Canon because of better handling, better files, better glass, better ISO performance...... Is the grass really greener on the other side??

No.... Canon does have better glass and generally nicer better designed cameras which are more fun to use. By design I am referencing to the user experience and attention to detail.
For this reason I picked up a Sony A7r. An A7r with Canon glass is a better option than a Nikon set up.


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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 03:54 |  #324

Mornnb wrote in post #17423130 (external link)
Well if that's the case Canon is underselling their new sensor, because 2 stops is how far they are behind the Sony sensor.

On the purely technical measurement, yes. But, apart from the 6D, the darkest few stops of Canon's sensors are also so noisy as to be unusable. Maybe this is what they meant when they mentioned better noise handling - the same technical DR, but more usable DR.

No.... Canon does have better glass and generally nicer better designed cameras which are more fun to use. By design I am referencing to the user experience and attention to detail.
For this reason I picked up a Sony A7r. An A7r with Canon glass is a better option than a Nikon set up.

Sony does have the disadvantage of a lossy compression format for RAW, which makes the A7r poor when dealing with certain details such as star trails - you end up with a lot of aliasing artifacts. If they can fix this, it would be a huge boon for detail-oriented photographers (i.e. anyone who buys a 36-50MP camera) even if it is at the expense of a larger RAW file.

With regards to lens selection, Canon probably have the upper hand at the moment, with a few exceptions (14-24). Once Nikon update a few lenses, though (24-70 and 200-400 especially) it may be a different story.

With regards to ergonomics and functionality, I always found Canon cameras clunky and inconvenient to use, compared to Nikon. I still went with then when moving from MF film, though, mainly because of the 5D2's sensor advantage over the D700 at the time, and currently use Canon lenses on the A7r solely because of the Canon tilt-shift lenses.




  
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Feb 09, 2015 03:59 |  #325

Shadowblade wrote in post #17423029 (external link)
Depends what you shoot.

If you mostly shoot action, events, high-ISO, etc. with a photojournalistic style, and shoot a lot of JPEG, Canon might suit you better, depending on the lenses you prefer.

If you shoot landscapes or studio work (at the moment, anyway, since the 5Dsr isn't out yet) there's no doubt that Nikon is way ahead.

Surely not. I'd say most of us landscape photogs are using liveview more than any other feature, and with the liveviews of the nikons its just a PITA. I mean can you see through liveview anything when you have a 10 stop nd filter on your nikon and it really makes fun to use also in lower light etc? Well, with the A7r i can...

Mornnb wrote in post #17423130 (external link)
Well if that's the case Canon is underselling their new sensor, because 2 stops is how far they are behind the Sony sensor.

No.... Canon does have better glass and generally nicer better designed cameras which are more fun to use. By design I am referencing to the user experience and attention to detail.
For this reason I picked up a Sony A7r. An A7r with Canon glass is a better option than a Nikon set up.

Text in bold: So true IMO


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jonneymendoza
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Feb 09, 2015 04:15 |  #326

the 5d3 was a sensational camera. on paper better then the d800


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Feb 09, 2015 04:54 |  #327

Tony-S wrote in post #17422687 (external link)
So, how is lens resolving power fitting into this new sensor? For example, the 135mm f/2L is 43 lpmm at its best, but this sensor seems to be more than that?

Where are you getting you data for the maximum resolution of the 135 f/2 L? If it's DXO then remember that their lens tests are actually limited by the camera body that the lens is mounted on. Independent tests using a proper optical test bench will be much more reliable. Actually it is only from tests done on an optical bench that you can determine how a lens may perform on any particular body.DXO are not going to invest the $20000 or so in one of those when it will provide zero return to them. DXO only release the test data that they do as an adjunct to their main business, which is selling software. Software that relies on testing lenses on camera bodies.

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Feb 09, 2015 06:02 as a reply to  @ BigAl007's post |  #328

I went from 12 mp to 20 mp and lost my mind. I can be happy with that for a long time.

All of this tech talk hurts my brain. For me, it removes anything "fun" from photography and replaces it with burdensome minutia that I honestly couldn't really care about.

For me, one thing matters above all else: How do the images look?

My 6D, and even my 5D, produces images which I, and more importantly my clients, are happy with. They don't care about the technical mumbo jumbo, and it's of little interest to me. I guess some of it is mildly interesting but, beyond that, it just clogs up the works...


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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 06:15 |  #329

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17423187 (external link)
the 5d3 was a sensational camera. on paper better then the d800

Emphasised the camera part.

The 5D3 was the digital equivalent of putting cheap, unrefrigerated film into a Canon EOS-1v.




  
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Shadowblade
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Feb 09, 2015 06:23 |  #330

davidfarina wrote in post #17423180 (external link)
Surely not. I'd say most of us landscape photogs are using liveview more than any other feature, and with the liveviews of the nikons its just a PITA. I mean can you see through liveview anything when you have a 10 stop nd filter on your nikon and it really makes fun to use also in lower light etc? Well, with the A7r i can...

This was a comparison between Canon bodies and Nikon bodies, Sony not being part of the picture. Canon's sensors are so far behind Nikon/Sony at low ISO that, for landscape photography, there's no contest between them, even after lenses are taken into account.

Even so, Nikon does a better job using the Sony sensors than Sony do themselves - the D800e and D810 both outperform the A7r, and the Nikon lossless RAW compression is much better than Sony's lossy compression. The main reason to choose the A7r over the D810 is to be able to use Canon lenses on it, provided you don't care about AF. In practice, this basically means the TS-E lenses and the 24-70 - for everything else, Nikon has an equivalent which is just as good.

The D800 had poor live view, but this was fixed in the D810, which has a well-functioning live view system.

In any case, I can put up with poor live view if it's a choice between that and image quality. I shoot landscapes. They don't tend to move very fast, and I have all the time in the world to focus.




  
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