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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 11 Feb 2015 (Wednesday) 08:20
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Dangers of shooting in FREEZING temps!?

 
moose10101
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Feb 12, 2015 15:18 |  #16

qdrummer21 wrote in post #17429028 (external link)
I'll confirm what everyone has said.

I frequently shoot on ski mountains in the winter during single digit days, before the wind chill. Condensation is never a problem for me when going from outside to inside. The warm air in the building is the same dry air from outside with the temperature increased, they both have the same moisture level. Think about it, when was the last time you went inside during the winter and said to yourself, "Wow it's really humid in here?" Unless the warm building you're in is using a humidifier to increase the moisture in the air, the only condensation you'll have to worry about is a result of you breathing on the camera as you take photos.

The two bigger problems you need to worry about when shooting in cold temps are battery life and exposure/frostbite.

The warmer inside air is capable of holding more moisture, even though it may feel as dry as the outside air (hence the term "relative humidity"). And that additional moisture will condense onto a cold surface.

If you have a cold drink in that building, is there never any condensation on the outside of the glass?




  
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Archibald
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Feb 12, 2015 15:42 |  #17

Poindexter wrote in post #17427024 (external link)
Moving from warm to drastic cold environments, quickly, can cause condensation to form.

I think you mean moving from cold to warm and moist environments. A warm object won't cause condensation to form. Condensation forms when the object is cooler, not warmer, than the dew point.

If a cool object (like a car windshield) has condensation, you can get rid of it by warming it.

On the other hand, you can cause condensation to form by exposing a cool surface (like a bottle of beer from the fridge) to warm moist air.


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Feb 12, 2015 16:03 as a reply to  @ Archibald's post |  #18

This is exactly right, Archibald

And the following to qdrummer:
It is more humid inside than out, because warm air holds more moisture. So, even though the air feels dry inside, that warm air actually has a lot of moisture in it, compared to the outside air.....that's why it is called relative humidity. If the 20 degree outside air has 40% relative humidity, and the 70 degree inside air has 40% relative humidity, there is a heck of a lot more moisture in the inside air.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Feb 12, 2015 18:22 |  #19

OP,
I am about an hour and a half north of you. I can only echo what you have already received. I shoot 7d and 5d3. When shooting in extreme cold, I simply put all of my gear back in my back pack and bring it in the house. I let it all warm zipped up in the backpack. It takes a while to warm but it is slow enough I have never had issues. When shooting big lake shots I find it harder in the nasty storms to avoid sandblasting my equipment rather than worrying about bringing it in. :lol:




  
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qdrummer21
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Feb 13, 2015 16:08 |  #20

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17429097 (external link)
This is exactly right, Archibald

And the following to qdrummer:
It is more humid inside than out, because warm air holds more moisture. So, even though the air feels dry inside, that warm air actually has a lot of moisture in it, compared to the outside air.....that's why it is called relative humidity. If the 20 degree outside air has 40% relative humidity, and the 70 degree inside air has 40% relative humidity, there is a heck of a lot more moisture in the inside air.

Yes warm air holds more moisture than cold, but just because it's capability to hold more moisture increases doesn't mean the moisture actually increases. If we use your numbers above, in order to take 20 degree air with 40% relative humidity from outside and put it inside at 70 degrees with 40% relative humidity you would have to run it through both a heater and a humidifier. Simply heating the air will not increase the total amount of moisture in it. If all you did was heat the air to 70 degrees, that air would be at a lower relative humidity than the original 20 degree you started with. Most buildings, at least in my area, don't use humidifiers in their climate control systems.




  
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karobinson
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Feb 13, 2015 16:26 |  #21

When asked to shoot for the Yukon Quest in the Interior a few years back, I asked the same question. All my answers came back for concerns on the batteries and my fingers, not my gear. I was shooting in minus 40 degrees with a 50d. Camera did fine. When done I put it in a bag (ziplock by suggestion of Canon) and placed in camera bag. Left this bag in the actual camera bag in the cold entry way of my home for the first day after the shoot. Then brought the camera bag in the house and left it be for 24 hrs ...next day brought the completely wet (on the outside) ziplock bag out and left it in the almost warm laundry room for a day after drying it off. Then brought that bag into my warm living room after drying it off daily and waiting until I no longer had to dry it off each day until taking the camera out of the bag.

My biggest concern was losing the photos. Usual after a shoot I download them immediately...it was really hard waiting to download those photos.

On the batteries....I had three friends who kept warming up batteries for me. If I remember right....I was getting 10-15 shots before we had to switch out the battery to a warmer one.


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Feb 13, 2015 16:37 |  #22

qdrummer21 wrote in post #17430662 (external link)
Yes warm air holds more moisture than cold, but just because it's capability to hold more moisture increases doesn't mean the moisture actually increases. If we use your numbers above, in order to take 20 degree air with 40% relative humidity from outside and put it inside at 70 degrees with 40% relative humidity you would have to run it through both a heater and a humidifier. Simply heating the air will not increase the total amount of moisture in it. If all you did was heat the air to 70 degrees, that air would be at a lower relative humidity than the original 20 degree you started with. Most buildings, at least in my area, don't use humidifiers in their climate control systems.

This is true. Most homes have a low relative humidity when it is cold out unless they are humidified on purpose. It takes a LOT of water (gallons) to humidify a home.

Since most homes are bone dry in the winter, you can often bring cold gear in without protection. But if the surface gets wet or forms frost, better put it in a plastic bag right away until it has warmed up a bit.


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Feb 13, 2015 17:04 |  #23

karobinson wrote in post #17430685 (external link)
On the batteries....I had three friends who kept warming up batteries for me. If I remember right....I was getting 10-15 shots before we had to switch out the battery to a warmer one.


So I would just like to re-enforce this point that I think might get missed from the way the battery issue is posed.

While your batteries will 'die' quickly, you just need to warm them up again and keep cycling in warm ones.

Someone might get the impression that the cold batteries actually deplete more quickly which is not the case. (Well it might be, but it's more a function of them just being cold).

And, yes, freezing your eyelid to the camera hurts.


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Feb 16, 2015 20:19 |  #24

qdrummer21 wrote in post #17430662 (external link)
Yes warm air holds more moisture than cold, but just because it's capability to hold more moisture increases doesn't mean the moisture actually increases. If we use your numbers above, in order to take 20 degree air with 40% relative humidity from outside and put it inside at 70 degrees with 40% relative humidity you would have to run it through both a heater and a humidifier. Simply heating the air will not increase the total amount of moisture in it. If all you did was heat the air to 70 degrees, that air would be at a lower relative humidity than the original 20 degree you started with. Most buildings, at least in my area, don't use humidifiers in their climate control systems.

Yet, when walking in the front door, people with glasses or goggles notice they fog up right away. Yes, simply raising the heating doesn't increase the amount of moisture in it. But, with the increased temperature, anytime someone uses water (especially a shower), more moisture is added to the air. Wet bath tubs, sinks, dish racks, drying towels, etc. all have their water in them go somewhere (the air) over time. And just people breathing and exhaling while in a space will add to the moisture in the air. Any of these by themselves might be a small/minor amount, but when put all together can create a noticeable effect.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 17, 2015 00:00 as a reply to  @ tagnal's post |  #25

Yes, absolutely correct. And this is why there is more moisture in the air that is indoors. When someone exhales outside in 20 degree temps, most of the moisture precipitates out of the air. When someone exhales in 70 degree air, most of the moisture is suspended in the air, and continues to be suspended there indefinitely. This happens not only when people exhale, but as you said, every time any moisture from any source is introduced to the air. And this is why it is - most definitely - more moist inside warm houses than outside in the cold.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Dangers of shooting in FREEZING temps!?
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