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Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
Kickflipkid687
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Feb 12, 2015 12:17 |  #1741

Well like I posted above,Canon might be lying to us about the AF size/areas in the view finder.

So we might be assuming we are doing everything right, when in reality things are way different than expected.
So we might have to use spot focus more, or adjust our techniques.

I also saw another article from lensRentals.com , where they said the 7D version 1 had maybe the worst AF consistency... :S Or something was going wrong.
Even the t4I was better or the 60D. But then he said the 1dX/5D III and T4i were the best at the time.

hmmmm...

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras (external link)


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TeamSpeed
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Post edited over 3 years ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Feb 12, 2015 12:23 |  #1742

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17428788 (external link)
Well like I posted above,Canon might be lying to us about the AF size/areas in the view finder.

So we might be assuming we are doing everything right, when in reality things are way different than expected.
So we might have to use spot focus more, or adjust our techniques.

I also saw another article from lensRentals.com , where they said the 7D version 1 had maybe the worst AF consistency... :S Or something was going wrong.
Even the t4I was better or the 60D. But then he said the 1dX/5D III and T4i were the best at the time.

hmmmm...

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras (external link)

There was quite a bit in the lensrental article, discussing the closed loop AF and the part that lenses play with AF algorithms. Lens design and hardware, the body, its AF sensor design, and the AF modes all make up the AF microcosm.

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras (external link)


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huntersdad
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Feb 12, 2015 12:57 |  #1743

Spot focus on BIFs or things moving isn't likely to happen. Been there, tried that.

Changing techniques is more likely. I'm thinking of not changing the tracking speed and seeing how it does with the 600.


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LonelyBoy
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Feb 12, 2015 15:55 |  #1744

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17428788 (external link)
Well like I posted above,Canon might be lying to us about the AF size/areas in the view finder.

So we might be assuming we are doing everything right, when in reality things are way different than expected.
So we might have to use spot focus more, or adjust our techniques.

I also saw another article from lensRentals.com , where they said the 7D version 1 had maybe the worst AF consistency... :S Or something was going wrong.
Even the t4I was better or the 60D. But then he said the 1dX/5D III and T4i were the best at the time.

hmmmm...

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras (external link)

Thanks for posting that! It was a great set of articles.


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gschlact
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Feb 13, 2015 01:02 |  #1745

8612images wrote in post #17428523 (external link)
The lens and tc were MA'd together. My soccer shots with it are decently sharp and but for the birds, there is just limited detail...

Here's todays 7d2 photo


thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by 8612images in
./showthread.php?p=174​28523&i=i204870446
forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras

You certainly didn't need this. But it does look like Cf corruption. Idea: Did you yet refers the flash card and try again?




  
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gschlact
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Post edited over 3 years ago by gschlact.
     
Feb 13, 2015 01:30 |  #1746

huntersdad wrote in post #17428863 (external link)
Spot focus on BIFs or things moving isn't likely to happen. Been there, tried that.

Changing techniques is more likely. I'm thinking of not changing the tracking speed and seeing how it does with the 600.


HD-
Given that the 600 is the one lens giving you issues, I still hold to my electromechanical I can theory. But, while waiting on Canon, We need to think what settings, if any can help, can maybe offset the front back inconsistency. I am not inclines to think it is the tracking setting unless you admit (doubtfully) that you have been poorly maintaining the afpoint on target. Also, while unfortunate that Canon can't write a decent manual that actually describes the impact of the settings on the actual algorithm without first describing a use case. So, it isn't too hard to imagine in a general Tracking algorithm (description for ai servo) that Tracking Sensitivity probably introduces a delay in the acquisition of a new subject. For the accel/decal, I speculate that it's impact on tracking affects two things i) non linear target movement but also ii) potential sample time for focusing adjustments correlation to prediction. FIX THEORY In the front back issue at hand, TRY making the settings to force camera to keep issuing as many software e-m commands to the lens to try to keep up. Make tracking twitchy and accel expected. Try with single point (non expanded) : +1, +1, 0 and see if the front back get reduced such that results become more consistent. To go along with these, maybe shorten your distance so that the single point is wholey inside (smaller) than target to reduce risk of the AF point size grabbing higher contrast outside front back of target. No harm in trying. :cry:
(but wasn't Canon looking into this and getting back to you last week? )




  
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apersson850
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Feb 13, 2015 01:57 |  #1747

Canon's Servo AF algorithms always start by trying to establish the correct focus setting to the target as quickly as possible.
Once acquired, they'll keep the distance setting as long as the main focus point can see the target. If it's suddenly heavily out of focus on the far end, the camera will wait for a timeout, before it does a new search. As assumed above, Tracking sensitivity defines the timeout, indirectly.

When getting changing distance readings all the time, the algortithm assumes the target is moving, either towards you or away from you. When that happens, the camera makes predictions about where it assumes the target to be next time it measures, and compares to the actual value. If the difference is large, it will be reluctant to believe in that measurement, and only adjust focus slightly to track. It takes several measurements to confirm such a jump in target distance. If you set the accel/decel setting more aggressively, the camera will be quicker to jump on a target that suddenly moved considerably compared to the predicted trajectory.

The setting for shifting AF points sideways is similar, just in another direction.

Several cameras have AF point sensitivity well outside the outlined AF point in the viewfinder.


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huntersdad
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Feb 13, 2015 07:53 |  #1748

gschlact wrote in post #17429758 (external link)
HD- (but wasn't Canon looking into this and getting back to you last week? )

They did, but not until after I had exchanged the camera on the last possible day. Several CPS reps reviewed the images thoroughly and agreed there was an significant issue. What that issue was is still in question. CPS doesn't have a 600II to test, so they tried a 500 I and II, 600 I and 800, but couldn't duplicate any problem. Right now their belief is that something in MY LENS, not all but my 600, isn't working with the 7d2s I had. As mentioned before, the 600II is the only updated supertele that they have any complaints about and those complaints were all the same with the same results - focus showing locked with inexplicable front (mostly), back (a little) and no focus (between the two) on anything moving, whether flying or floating.

I was able to try the lens out this morning on my new body briefly, but I immediately noticed that the AF seemed more solid, less twirky. In goofing around with it last night in the house, the same was apparent. The test comes this weekend in real world usage, so we'll see if I am correct and the AF is better tuned. I can say that my test shots were very sharp and accurately focused - but nothing was moving.


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gschlact
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Post edited over 3 years ago by gschlact.
     
Feb 13, 2015 22:15 as a reply to  @ huntersdad's post |  #1749

HD-
Remind us.... Previously, were your front back issues on your 600ii bare, with TC, or both?




  
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StarJack
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Feb 13, 2015 23:04 |  #1750

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17428788 (external link)
Well like I posted above...

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras (external link)

Thanks for the link!


Regards,
Steve

  
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Kickflipkid687
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Feb 14, 2015 15:52 |  #1751

Was reading more on those links I posted.

This makes sense. Which then makes me wonder how good the new 100-400 II is with the 7D II. I've heard good things.

It appears, and I've repeated the test on several copies, that the combination of new camera AF system in the 5D III and new lens makes a huge difference.

In this case, phase-detection AF is just as accurate as LiveView. I didn't put the numbers up to keep the post reasonably brief, but manual focusing and single-shot AF were just about the same for three different copies of the lens.

Something seems to be different with the 5D III and 24mm f/2.8 IS USM combination. The 5D III isn't better with the old lens. The 24mm f/2.8 IS USM isn't better with the 5D II camera. The two together, though, are better.


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Efstratios
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Feb 15, 2015 01:48 |  #1752

Right now I have a 7D2 and 100-400 II and I want a 1.4 extender, but I'm not sure what the major differences between the 1.4x II and III versions will be using my gear. Can anyone steer me in the right direction? I know the 1.4x III has better optics so the corners might be sharper but will it autofocus faster at f/8 than the II version? Right now a used II goes for about $175 on EBay whereas the III goes for about $400.




  
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Feb 15, 2015 04:38 as a reply to  @ Efstratios's post |  #1753

The Mark III Extenders were designed for the 300mm f2.8 MK2 , 500mm f/4 MK2 and 600mm f/4 MK2. So I doubt if they will make any difference on other lenses


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Feb 15, 2015 08:29 |  #1754

Canon-Chas wrote in post #17432454 (external link)
The Mark III Extenders were designed for the 300mm f2.8 MK2 , 500mm f/4 MK2 and 600mm f/4 MK2. So I doubt if they will make any difference on other lenses

I do not know if I would agree with this. At the time those were the newest large L's, so it made sense that they reported they were made for the latest and greatest. I would think that any other new and updated L's would have been made to work well with the Mark III extenders as well.


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Feb 15, 2015 08:49 as a reply to  @ Efstratios's post |  #1755

I bought a 1.4iii awhile back to replace my 1.4ii. I compared them extensively on my 50D and 400DO f/4. I thought the iii was sharper, on the edges and in the center. The difference was slight but sufficient to convince me to keep the iii. I still have the ii but have never tried it on my 7dii. The 400DO + 1.4iii focuses with lightning speed on the 7dii. I did buy a 2xiii and have had mixed results on the 7dii and the 400DO. The focus speed is very quick, but the sharpness is inconsistent and the results are frustrating. Handholding an 800mm lens is much more difficult than handholding 560mm. When it works, however, the results can be very satisfying. Small birds benefit from long focal length and many pixels. This Downy Woodpecker was about 50' distant. The first image is the entire 7dii sensor, the second is a crop for a print. Handheld 7dii, 2xiii, 400DO, ISO 800, f/10, 1/800 sec, EC + 1/3. HTH.


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