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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 16 Feb 2015 (Monday) 13:06
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Question about Canon meter

 
jimeuph1
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Feb 17, 2015 04:42 |  #16

By "correct exposure" you mean a nice centred bell curve right?

The correct exposure is the one that makes sense to each picture you take, i.e. the subject is exposed in the scene.

Sometime that results in blown highlights, or dark backgrounds.

Generally for EC, if the subject is light on a dark background, you need negative compensation.

If the subject is dark on a light background, then you need positive compensation.

We do not live in a 18% grey world, or 15% or 12% for that matter. It varies wildly dependent on our scene.

Each camera is different as well, even between the same models, this is why they tell you to learn your camera.




  
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Frodge
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Feb 17, 2015 06:33 |  #17

My two bodies and also my wife's m, usually use 2/3-1 full stop +ec. It took a long time for my obsessive nature to do this wondering why the meter always underexposed. My old Yashica never did this. All of this being said, why doesn't Canon just adjust for this +2/3rd that almost everyone is using.


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LV ­ Moose
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Feb 17, 2015 08:11 |  #18

Frodge wrote in post #17435643 (external link)
...why doesn't Canon just adjust for this +2/3rd that almost everyone is using.

They're in denial


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sandpiper
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Feb 17, 2015 10:25 |  #19

Frodge wrote in post #17435643 (external link)
All of this being said, why doesn't Canon just adjust for this +2/3rd that almost everyone is using.

Probably because it is a deliberate setting to help those who don't bother to set exposure, and just let the meter do it. Slight underexposure is unlikely to be an issue (indeed when I shot film - mainly transparencies - I aimed for slight underexposure as it gave better saturation and more punch) but a meter which gives a little more exposure could result in badly blown highlights, especially in sunshine. I often find myself using -ve EC in bright sun to preserve detail in highlight areas which are acting as reflectors. It is likely to be a safety feature for the point and shooters. Anybody who doesn't just point and shoot, but sets their own exposures will not have a problem with this. To be honest, I never even noticed my camera tended towards underexposure until I saw threads about the "problem". Then, when I thought about it, I realised that I shot above the meter reading more often than I shot below it, but as I always set the exposure for the shot myself (either manually or using EC) I had not thought about it.




  
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electronpusher
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Feb 17, 2015 11:13 |  #20

When I first purchased my 5dII it wasn't long before I noticed most shots were underexposed using evaluative metering. A +2/3 EC setting seems to be the sweet spot for most shots now. I always assumed it was a way for Canon to inflate their ISO numbers just enough so most everyday users wouldn't notice.


Canon 5D mkII (gripped) | Canon 1D mkIII | 24-70mm f/2.8 L | 70-200mm f/2.8 II L | 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 L | 17-40mm f/4 L |100mm f/2.8 L Macro | 50mm f/1.8 II | Kenko 1.4x Teleplus Pro 300 DGX | 600EX-RT
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LV ­ Moose
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Feb 17, 2015 11:24 |  #21

electronpusher wrote in post #17435940 (external link)
...A +2/3 EC setting seems to be the sweet spot for most shots now. I always assumed it was a way for Canon to inflate their ISO numbers just enough so most everyday users wouldn't notice.

I wouldn't put it past them. Issues with underexposure have been talked about for years. They would have addressed it by now unless they had an ulterior motive.


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sandpiper
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Feb 17, 2015 11:29 |  #22

electronpusher wrote in post #17435940 (external link)
When I first purchased my 5dII it wasn't long before I noticed most shots were underexposed using evaluative metering. A +2/3 EC setting seems to be the sweet spot for most shots now. I always assumed it was a way for Canon to inflate their ISO numbers just enough so most everyday users wouldn't notice.

LV Moose wrote in post #17435951 (external link)
I wouldn't put it past them. Issues with underexposure have been talked about for years. They would have addressed it by now unless they had an ulterior motive.

Except I remember the same comments about meters tending towards underexposure back inthe film days as well, when ISO had nothing to do with the camera.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Wilt. (4 edits in all)
     
Feb 17, 2015 12:09 |  #23

electronpusher wrote in post #17435940 (external link)
When I first purchased my 5dII it wasn't long before I noticed most shots were underexposed using evaluative metering. A +2/3 EC setting seems to be the sweet spot for most shots now. I always assumed it was a way for Canon to inflate their ISO numbers just enough so most everyday users wouldn't notice.

LV Moose wrote in post #17435951 (external link)
I wouldn't put it past them. Issues with underexposure have been talked about for years. They would have addressed it by now unless they had an ulterior motive.


If Canon is trying to 'hide something', then one has to wonder exactly WHY my Minolta Autometer Vf and Minolta Flashmeter S both were developed and on the market BEFORE DIGITAL cameras, yet they match my Canon 40D spotmeter!

sandpiper wrote in post #17435958 (external link)
Except I remember the same comments about meters tending towards underexposure back inthe film days as well, when ISO had nothing to do with the camera.

Wilt wrote in post #17434886 (external link)
It has long been a discussion point that you need to read a 12% reflective surface to get an exposure reading that results in the 'midtone' being in the center, rather than measuring an 18% metered target. The 15% target is about 1/2EV darker target than an 18% target, so if you measure 18% target it ends up to the left of midtone.


Do you have an 18% grey target, which you can measure with the camera's spotmeter, to compare that reading with the reading that you get with the Expodisk?

Shot exactly as spotmetered by Canon camera.

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/Principles/asmetered_zpsynzfvxnb.jpg
As you can see the histogram peaks the midtone just to the left of histogram center, just as I said it would when targeting an 18% brightness target for metering!

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electronpusher
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Feb 17, 2015 13:18 |  #24

OK - I might be behind on my history here, but why the change away from 18% gray that was used for years?


Canon 5D mkII (gripped) | Canon 1D mkIII | 24-70mm f/2.8 L | 70-200mm f/2.8 II L | 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 L | 17-40mm f/4 L |100mm f/2.8 L Macro | 50mm f/1.8 II | Kenko 1.4x Teleplus Pro 300 DGX | 600EX-RT
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Wilt
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 17, 2015 13:27 as a reply to  @ electronpusher's post |  #25

Electronpusher wrote:
OK - I might be behind on my history here, but why the change away from 18% gray that was used for years?

No change...even Kodak has said to take the 18% card reading and adjust it by upping the reading by 1/2EV!

When we look at printed tones from black to white, where black is at 0% and white is at 100%, one might think that middle grey would be in the center at 50% reflected brightness. But middle grey falls at 18%. When grey is printed at this value we see it as being in the exact middle between black and white. It is from this perception of middle grey that we get the value of 18%. We have the print world to thank for this "standardization" of what value middle grey should be.

The published standards for correct reflectance values of middle grey (ANSI PH3.49-1971) actually put it at 12%-13%, which is about 1/2 stop under 18%. And it seems that most meter and camera manufacturers agree with this standard. Even Kodak, maker of 18% grey cards agrees, as Kodak's earlier instructions on using their grey card read: "Meter readings of the gray card should be adjusted as follows: 1) For subjects of normal reflectance increase the indicated exposure by 1/2 stop." For a while, though, Kodak omitted these instructions, and then added them back...
The instructions have since been updated to: "Place the card close to and in front of the subject, aimed halfway between the main light and the camera." Angling the card like this has the effect of reducing the reflectance of the card, which in effect gets the meter to increase the exposure by about a 1/2 stop.


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electronpusher
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Feb 17, 2015 13:43 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #26

Thanks, Wilt. I've used the Kodak gray card and color strip for many, many years with film cameras and never saw a notice about the 1/2 stop. It always seemed to work well with my film cameras. Of course we didn't have camera histograms then! I just found it odd that almost every shot with my then new 5DII was underexposed, and that keeping the EC at +2/3 corrects it. Once on the forum, I found many others had to do the same.


Canon 5D mkII (gripped) | Canon 1D mkIII | 24-70mm f/2.8 L | 70-200mm f/2.8 II L | 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 L | 17-40mm f/4 L |100mm f/2.8 L Macro | 50mm f/1.8 II | Kenko 1.4x Teleplus Pro 300 DGX | 600EX-RT
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Nick5
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Feb 18, 2015 16:34 |  #27

Last month I bought a second 5D Mark III with Firmware 1.3.3 installed from factory. When comparing to my first 5D Mark III with Firmware 1.2.3 the meter readings were different.
Same lens, same focal length and same exact parameters. Manual mode, fixed ISO, fixed Aperture. Baseline is ambient meter reading from a Sekonic L358. at "0" "Proper Exposure".
The original 5D Mark III (1.2.3) meter -2/3 underexposed
The new 5D Mark III (1.3.3) meter -1/3 and at times 0
As I upgraded firmware 1.2.3 to 1.3.3 today, no real changes in metering.
In the meantime I have been adding 1/3 Exposure Compensation to the original 5D Mark III and will continue until I have time to get to the Canon Repair facility a short one hour and fifteen minute drive from my home.


Canon 5D Mark III (x2), BG-E11 Grips, 7D (x2) BG-E7 Grips, Canon Lenses 16-35 f/4 L IS, 17-40 f/4 L, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 24-105 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, 70-200 f/4 L IS, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS, TS-E 24 f/3.5 L II, 100 f/2.8 L Macro IS, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 17-55 f/2.8 L IS, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, Canon 1.4 Extender III, 5 Canon 600 EX-RT, 2 Canon ST-E3 Transmitters, Canon Pixma PRO-10 Printer

  
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apersson850
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Feb 19, 2015 05:28 |  #28

There's of course a reason for why Canon provides exposure metering microadjustment on their most advanced camera models.


Anders

  
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Question about Canon meter
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