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Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
britt777
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Feb 20, 2015 21:55 |  #1861

http://www.naturephoto​graphers.net/articles0​408/dw0408-1.html (external link)

Very interesting, as some of us struggle with AF issues. Is it the camera? Is it the lens?
So frustrating....just want to shoot. I don't know of very many people who want to spend thousands of dollars on cameras and lenses all to have to sit at home researching how to get a photograph in focus.vmad


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ScPhotoMom
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Feb 20, 2015 22:17 as a reply to  @ britt777's post |  #1862

Thats how I feel about it. And if all my lenses work on my 40d but not my 7d Mark II, then obviously, its the camera.


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Archibald
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Feb 20, 2015 22:19 |  #1863

ScPhotoMom wrote in post #17441626 (external link)
Im demanding and ocd. So yeah, I will see things that the average photographer won't, or might not find annoying. But when I spend $1800 on a camera, I want the thing to work and work consistently and accurately. This camera has done none of that. Maybe I got another bad body? But I have seen professional reviews, like the one I just posted the video of, and they are seeing the same thing I am. They are having the exact same issue. The camera has inconsistent focus and does not focus where you tell it to.

I watched the video. If this is the focus behavior that you are also having, then that clarifies a lot. Some of the focus errors shown were not really that noticeable to me at first, but some others were. They are slight errors.

The focus errors also appeared to be variable, so MFA likely won't be of help.

The guy in the video substantiated the problem, but then dismissed it as not a deal breaker. Still, I don't think he was happy about it.

I have not seen this behavior in my 7D2, but it is possible that I have not looked carefully enough or maybe blamed myself. (I have had hundreds of OOF shots, but that is normal for me when shooting birds.)

I noted hunterdad's comment about comparing the 40D and 7D2 and think this is very valid.

So it seems clear that some 7D2 bodies (but probably not all) show slight but noticeable focus errors randomly.

This may end up being a question of whether it is a deal breaker for you or not, regardless of the opinion of the guy in the video.


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ScPhotoMom
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Feb 20, 2015 22:32 as a reply to  @ Archibald's post |  #1864

If this is an issue, that cannot be fixed, then it is a deal breaker. But I'm wondering if the issues this body is having are front focusing, or inconsistent. In my other body, it was purely inconsistent of missed focus, exactly like the guy in the video was having.


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britain
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Feb 20, 2015 23:03 |  #1865

When I purchase mine I felt like the guy on the other end of Dirty Harry's gun " Do you feel lucky punk? " Well as it turned out yes the camera seems to be working well. All the lens were pretty much dead on...except the 100 F/2.8. It was a mess.

I used the below.

http://ophrysphotograp​hy.co.uk …allensmicroadju​stment.htm (external link)

I ended up using the Arash Hazeghi's method as final.

All other lens really required no adjustment.


7D2, 20D , 100-400L I, 100-400L II, EFS 17-85 , EFS 18-135, EFS 10-18mm, 100 2.8 macro , ring light, 430EX II, PD Capture Pro, Lifted modified Jeep to shake it all up:)

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gschlact
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Feb 20, 2015 23:57 |  #1866

rejay14 wrote in post #17440335 (external link)
Thanks :)

1. using three methods (FoCal. dot-tune, shooting a ruler at an angle)
2. 1/1000, f3.2, 175mm, ISO 3200
3. IS on
4. First and second priority: Focus/Focus
5. technique is the same for both, IS probably doesn't help at 1/1000 but why not have it on anyway.
6. Case 6, +1 for all parameters

To help simplify, I suggest staying on Case 1 for now. Once you start getting increased keepers then you can figure out the effects of accel / decal values.
Also, I don't know how much experience you have with IS stabilization shooting? But, one must let it settle before snapping. The camera will think it's in focus (proper af) but if IS hasn't settled, everything will look a little soft. Could you have 'rushed' the shot of jersey/player, meaning you depressed Af and shutter nearly as soon as camera hit your eye? At 1/1000 and <200mm, most would shut off IS.

Lastly, do you use back button AF?




  
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gschlact
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Feb 21, 2015 00:06 |  #1867

Archibald wrote in post #17440947 (external link)
The camera should not need MFA to perform properly.

If Af testing is to be done, mfa is required first if you want any chance at keeping your sanity.




  
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gschlact
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Feb 21, 2015 00:12 |  #1868

ScPhotoMom wrote in post #17441515 (external link)
I sent this to you in Pm.

"Ive been googling everything I can on this camera for the last 6 hours. I think this guy is describing exactly what I have been dealing with. It makes me to just want to sell the body and get something else. He really starts discussing the issues around 24 minutes.

http://froknowsphoto.c​om/canon-7d-markii-review/ (external link)

I do more family sessions than anything else, and I need something that is going to be consistently sharp. After three months of fighting this thing, I just don't know how much more I can tolerate on trying to make it work right. "

Apparently, this is just a true issue with this camera. And that "subtle" lack of sharp focus drives me absolutely bonkers. If there is a way to correct this issue, Im all for it. Just please, make this as painless as possible. I really don't know how much more I can take!! *losing my mind*

One important thing that can help you.
When doing your testing, is live view focus and take a couple of shots so that you can compare those 'best possible' sharpness with the phase detect 'non live view' testing shots. If live view is not sharp, then it's your technique k
(eliminate with tripod) or lens.




  
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Archibald
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Feb 21, 2015 00:18 |  #1869

gschlact wrote in post #17441849 (external link)
If Af testing is to be done, mfa is required first if you want any chance at keeping your sanity.

Re MFA, Canon says "Normally, this adjustment is not required. Perform this adjustment only if necessary. Note that performing this adjustment may prevent accurate focusing from being achieved." (Manual, p 133.)

If the camera is malfunctioning, it needs service and not MFA.

IMO, much of the grief reported in this thread is due to people meddling with advanced adjustments before they know sufficiently what they are doing.


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Frodge
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Feb 21, 2015 06:00 |  #1870

Archibald wrote in post #17441861 (external link)
IMO, much of the grief reported in this thread is due to people meddling with advanced adjustments before they know sufficiently what they are doing.

This is an excellent point. Did folks just go out and willy nilly start mfa'ing everything? If so, this could be a big part of the problem. If you read these forums, the idea that you get is that mfa is a necdsary function that either makes or breaks a bodies usefulness.


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Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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Canon-Chas
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Feb 21, 2015 06:19 |  #1871

I know two Professional wildlife photographers in the UK, both highly experienced with Canon gear, who sent their 7D MK 2 back for a full refund within two weeks.
Their opinion was why should we do Canons testing for them ?

I hope a firmware update solves these issues, either that or a bad batch was released without proper quality control checks ?


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ScPhotoMom
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Feb 21, 2015 07:54 as a reply to  @ Archibald's post |  #1872

I have not done any manual focus adjustments on my camera.

My previous body took stunning photos in live view but horrible ones through the view finder. I haven't cut live view on on this camera yet. I just went out and got my tripod out of the car. Im about to start my more extensive testing.


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8612images
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Feb 21, 2015 08:38 |  #1873

I am on my 4th body as well and am having better success. I do not feel 100% about it tho. I truly believe there is a flaw in this release that allows the Af to be just a hair off. I have had the AF "lock" (since it's priority 1 and 2) and produce an image where nothing is in focus. I have had it back focus and front focus as well as be 100% spot on.

I played with a d750 and it was sharp, no MA - just pop on a lens and go. very few OOF shots even with soccer. (of course, they were recalled to fix a light leak problem) At this point I kinda regret not staying with it. This canon certainly does not make me feel confident when shooting. If I had it to do again, I don't think I would buy the 7d2.

BTW - Gsclact what do you shoot? You have offered a lot of help - appreciated.


Steve

  
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TenaCJed
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Feb 21, 2015 09:10 |  #1874

britt777 wrote in post #17441725 (external link)
http://www.naturephoto​graphers.net/articles0​408/dw0408-1.html (external link)

Very interesting, as some of us struggle with AF issues. Is it the camera? Is it the lens?
So frustrating....just want to shoot. I don't know of very many people who want to spend thousands of dollars on cameras and lenses all to have to sit at home researching how to get a photograph in focus.vmad

Here is the thing with this article, if you want to let it get you down then you should just sell everything and get out of photography! This article is not about 7D Mark II, in fact they test Canon and Nikon with the same results!

This article is pointing out that auto focus is not always accurate, which I believe most of us are aware of already. Yes, if you have a static subject that is not going to move, and you can setup tripod, use live view and zoom in and manual focus, this will probably get you the sharpest possible image, assuming you can do all of that with no time restrictions.

This is obviously not a common scenario for most of us. Landscapes this technique works well for, beyond that I cannot think of much.

There is obviously an issue, I don't think anyone is going to deny that, except for Canon for now. Each person has to decide if they are willing to work through the issue and what route they will work it. It can be very frustrating, and a little scary as well.


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magicmikey
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Feb 21, 2015 09:34 |  #1875

I have been following this thread from the beginning, as I considered buying and then did buy a 7D Mark II. I have no doubt that some people may have purchased bodies with issues. There will always be a number of bodies that have issues regardless of the brand and specific model. That said, I've seen a lot of comparisons of the 7D Mark II to full-frame cameras like the the 5D Mark III and the D750. I have both a 5D Mark III and a 7D Mark II (and had a 7D and 60D prior to that.) What I have found is that a full-frame body is a lot more forgiving of slight focus errors than the 7D Mark II. As many have alluded to in the threads on multiple forums, this is due to the high pixel density of the 7D Mark II sensor. In practice, what that means is that your technique has to be a lot more precise with the 7D Mark II because the errors are considerably more noticeable with it than the with the 5D Mark III. Please note I am not saying it has more focus errors than the 5D Mark III – just that they are more noticeable.

When I got my 7D Mark II, the first thing I did was to check the focusing. It did show consistent front focusing will all of my lenses, ranging from +11 to +17. With MFA, I was able to correct it with all of my lenses except my 50mm f/1.4, which was still front focusing at +20. I checked it on my 5D III and it needs +17 on it so the lens is going in for adjustment. Once I set the MFA for each lens, I started taking lots of photos. I photograph studio shots, live performance (dance shows & magic shows) and events (I was the official photographer for a photo conference, I cover magic conventions and robotics competitions.) I quickly became aware that I needed to use higher shutter speeds to avoid showing camera movement in my photos. With my 85mm f/1.8, I have to shoot at 1/320 second. or faster or I see camera movement pretty regularly. I had always assumed I could shoot at 1/125 to 1/200 second to get a steady shot but that is not the case. (I've been doing photography for 37+ years and, apparently, my hands aren't as steady as they used to be or they never were and I didn't see it in my film days because we didn't pixel peep.)

Once I started being more conscious of my steadying technique for the camera, my keeper rate went up considerably. In addition, I also started noticing that the images from my 5D III weren't as perfect as I thought. Carefully reviewing them, I could see slight focus misses too. The difference was that it is much harder to see on the 5D III images and it takes very little sharpening in Photoshop to improve them. Unfortunately, it takes more to correct focus issues with a 7D II image and it usually doesn't look as good when completed as a corrected 5D III image.

My point behind this is that I think some people are mistaking the camera needing more precise technique with being faulty, especially when comparing it to the 5D III. Do I like that the camera requires a significant amount of MFA with all my lenses? No, that's why I sent it in for adjustment. As recommended by my CPS repair contact, I included my 17-55 f/2.8 lens for the technician to see how much MFA was needed. (My 17-55 needs +17 at the long end and +14 at the wide end.) They will be back in my hands on Monday so I will post back later on that. On the other hand, the fact that I can MFA for all of my lenses to fine tune them is a plus to me. None of my lenses were dead on with my 5D III, although they needed much less adjustment.

With the much higher resolutions of today's digital sensors, plus the complexity of the focusing systems, I think it's unrealistic to think that all bodies and lenses should focus perfectly right out of the box. Yes, I agree they should be close but dead on is a lot to ask. The amount of precision needed for a lens and body to focus perfectly makes it likely that there will be some slight adjustments needed and MFA provides that. (I do agree that the 7D Mark II seems to have a lot more front focus issues than it should and seems to require greater MFA.)

Finally, if your 7D Mark II has significant focusing inconsistencies, that is a different story. My camera has been very consistent. It just front focused. Hopefully, that will have been corrected by Canon when they repaired it this week.




  
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions
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