Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
RodS57
Senior Member
903 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Likes: 802
Joined Jun 2014
     
Mar 10, 2015 10:38 |  #2116

huntersdad wrote in post #17468076 (external link)
I don't know that you are throwing good money after bad money by sending it in. Heck, it's under warranty. When I sent in pictures, the CPS rep looked them over and made his opinion, then shared them with a group, who made an opinion. Without knowing the other's opinions, they all came back the exact same - something wrong. If you think something is wrong, send it in or exchange it.

Not sure where you are located, but I'll be glad to take a look at it with my lenses and give you my opinion.

I am in the middle of nowhere, Google labrador city. About 12 hours drive to the nearest city.

I read the article on focus adjustment the canon customer service agent sent. It doesn't go into great detail but does suggest that MFA may not be reliable on third party lenses. Right now the plan is to reset the camera back to factory just in case I have changed something that is causing the problems; concentrate on using the canon lenses and see if I can get any shots that really prove there is a problem. Twice now I've seen adjacent shots that were wildly different. The first time with the tamron and all were soft except one in the middle of a burst with MFA off that was very sharp and the second time while doing the focus test shots for canon where all were quite soft except for one that was completely out of focus. I need to carefully document this random error in pictures. As all lenses work on my T3i I do not think it is a lens malfunction issue.

If I can get it to work with my canon lenses then I will have to re-evaluate the situation. My opinion isn't cast in stone yet but I am coming to the conclusion there is something wrong inside the camera.

What would I use to clean the electrical body / lens contacts?


Rod


>>> Pictures? What pictures? <<<<

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 10, 2015 10:49 as a reply to  @ RodS57's post |  #2117

An eraser. Just don't get any in the camera.

Good thought on the reset and start over. Take your time and do the testing. It should be pretty easy to see focusing issues if there are any.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
britt777
Goldmember
Avatar
1,142 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Texas
     
Mar 10, 2015 11:21 |  #2118

So Im on my 3rd Body. Just picked up yesterday. Doing my Dottune and test shots. Found this very interesting and for what ever its worth this is what I discovered that I had not really looked at before because I was shooting in RAW.

Today I was shooting everything in Jpeg and noticed straight out of the box the camera is set to Standard Picture Style which applies Sharpness by 3. Pictures looked pretty darn good. I then set to Neutral Picture Style which is how images would come out when shooting in RAW and that is where I discovered the softness/OOF I was seeing in all my images on the other two bodies.
Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone else, but it definitely solved all of my issues and certainly learned a lot throughout this whole ordeal.

I now have all my lenses MFA'ed, which I never knew how to do before and am getting good results again.

I guess with this 7D Body when shooting in raw you will definitely have to apply a lot more sharpness than other bodies at least to my findings.

Good Luck to others, so glad I finally found my keeper:-D


Brittany
www.shutterprophotogra​phy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gschlact
Senior Member
1,318 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 487
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chicago 'burbs
     
Mar 10, 2015 12:52 |  #2119

RodS57 wrote in post #17468822 (external link)
I am in the middle of nowhere, Google labrador city. About 12 hours drive to the nearest city.

I read the article on focus adjustment the canon customer service agent sent. It doesn't go into great detail but does suggest that MFA may not be reliable on third party lenses. Right now the plan is to reset the camera back to factory just in case I have changed something that is causing the problems; concentrate on using the canon lenses and see if I can get any shots that really prove there is a problem. Twice now I've seen adjacent shots that were wildly different. The first time with the tamron and all were soft except one in the middle of a burst with MFA off that was very sharp and the second time while doing the focus test shots for canon where all were quite soft except for one that was completely out of focus. I need to carefully document this random error in pictures. As all lenses work on my T3i I do not think it is a lens malfunction issue.

If I can get it to work with my canon lenses then I will have to re-evaluate the situation. My opinion isn't cast in stone yet but I am coming to the conclusion there is something wrong inside the camera.

What would I use to clean the electrical body / lens contacts?

Rod

one suggestion to remember ... take a shot using Live View AF (contrast) so that you can set your expectation for the sharpest that the lens can take on the camera and compare to your normal Phase Detect AF. Make sure you have plenty of light and shutter speed.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Canon-Chas
Member
Avatar
232 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 88
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Scotland
     
Mar 10, 2015 12:53 as a reply to  @ britt777's post |  #2120

Well done, have fun :-D


Chas
http://www.wildfeather​s.co.uk (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
magicmikey
Senior Member
Avatar
985 posts
Likes: 27
Joined Feb 2005
     
Mar 10, 2015 13:12 |  #2121

britt777 wrote in post #17468872 (external link)
So Im on my 3rd Body. Just picked up yesterday. Doing my Dottune and test shots. Found this very interesting and for what ever its worth this is what I discovered that I had not really looked at before because I was shooting in RAW.

Today I was shooting everything in Jpeg and noticed straight out of the box the camera is set to Standard Picture Style which applies Sharpness by 3. Pictures looked pretty darn good. I then set to Neutral Picture Style which is how images would come out when shooting in RAW and that is where I discovered the softness/OOF I was seeing in all my images on the other two bodies.
Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone else, but it definitely solved all of my issues and certainly learned a lot throughout this whole ordeal.

I now have all my lenses MFA'ed, which I never knew how to do before and am getting good results again.

I guess with this 7D Body when shooting in raw you will definitely have to apply a lot more sharpness than other bodies at least to my findings.

Good Luck to others, so glad I finally found my keeper:-D

Actually, I think you'll find this true of all cameras. Since RAW images have no sharpening applied and the standard presets in cameras do apply sharpening to JPG, images will be sharper SOOC with JPG than with RAW (unless you turn down the sharpening in JPG.)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RodS57
Senior Member
903 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Likes: 802
Joined Jun 2014
     
Mar 10, 2015 20:09 |  #2122

gschlact wrote in post #17469001 (external link)
one suggestion to remember ... take a shot using Live View AF (contrast) so that you can set your expectation for the sharpest that the lens can take on the camera and compare to your normal Phase Detect AF. Make sure you have plenty of light and shutter speed.

Re: live view - does the exif data list that mode. I tried it this evening but don't know for sure with which shots

This confusing saga continues. I received what has to be called a polite email from canon customer service today. They gave me the address for the service center as well as letting me know if no problems were found they would return the camera so I could run tests again. I advised I would try a few more things and try to be more diligent with regards to documenting any problems before resorting to sending the camera in.

I did the clear all settings aka reset to factory defaults. Went out with the 70-300L attached. A high percentage of shots are quit acceptable even when viewed at 100%. I did get my average of soft shots due to user error. Subject matter wasn't the best and it was overcast but it is what it is. Tried one shot focus, ai servo in low and high speed. Also tried panning shots of vehicles passing by at about 60 km/h (about 40 mph for those in the US :-) ). Most were acceptable given my typical success rate with any camera.

As far as I can remember the only settings I had previously changed on the camera were: live view off, flash off, slow speed continuous set to 5, 1st and 2nd shot priority set to focus, case 2 for ai servo, and of course the MFA stuff. I don't see anything earth shattering there.

So this raises some questions:
1) did the factory reset fix something that was stuck as in a computer reboot.
2) were the persistent soft focus issues lens related. I intend to keep the canon on there for a while for some real shooting before taking the chance on the tamron
3) were the two oddball shots, one really sharp and one really out of focus, an anomaly

Going to take a while before I will feel comfortable with this camera.

Rod


>>> Pictures? What pictures? <<<<

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 10, 2015 20:38 |  #2123

Rod that is interesting. Guess it could be the reset. I have all the same settings you have with the exception of 2: Live View off (which I actually assume means you weren't in LV) and Case 2. The interesting part is that Case 2 is where I struggled so much in testing the camera that I have gone away from it. However, it is the case I use with my 1Dx with outstanding results.

Glad it seems to be working.

Brittany, glad your issue is resolved now also.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
britt777
Goldmember
Avatar
1,142 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Texas
     
Mar 10, 2015 21:57 as a reply to  @ huntersdad's post |  #2124

Brittany, glad your issue is resolved now also.[/QUOTE]

Thank you and thank you for your help with MFA;-)a


Brittany
www.shutterprophotogra​phy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
britt777
Goldmember
Avatar
1,142 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Texas
     
Mar 10, 2015 22:07 |  #2125

magicmikey wrote in post #17469018 (external link)
Actually, I think you'll find this true of all cameras. Since RAW images have no sharpening applied and the standard presets in cameras do apply sharpening to JPG, images will be sharper SOOC with JPG than with RAW (unless you turn down the sharpening in JPG.)


I was aware that RAW had no sharpening, but since I alway shoot in RAW I wasn't thinking about jpeg applying sharpening. Jpeg has picture styles with no sharpening as well. I was just glad I put 2&2 together....Duh on my part I know, but hey I got it figured out ;)

Still finding pictures to be a lot softer wide open @ 2.8 & 4 -?


Brittany
www.shutterprophotogra​phy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bianchi
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,067 posts
Gallery: 56 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6861
Joined Jan 2010
Location: USA
     
Mar 10, 2015 23:52 |  #2126

huntersdad wrote in post #17468071 (external link)
Personal opinions on Chuck's thoughts:

I don't think #1 answers the question we all have. I agree that the CASE NUMBERS are different presets of the values that are fed to the underlying algorithm. The question is: Do all the cases have the same underlying algorithm? It doesn't make sense to me that you have 6 different cases, designed to handle 6 completely different types and directions of movement, all acting completely different by moving a value to the left or the right. But maybe I'm in the minority in this thought.

I can understand #2, bu the word "slightly" should be omitted. The cases don't act the same.

Completely agree with number #3.

Very good reference materials in #4. If you haven't read them, shame on you.

#5 is personal choice. Like you, mine stays in Servo unless I am shooting in truly low light. In that situation, I find One Shot to focus more accurately. But that is rare for me.

I know for a fact that they do not have the same underlying algorithms. The question was asked to Rudi Winston, the gentleman who does Canon's video's on how to.


My Gear flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gschlact
Senior Member
1,318 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 487
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chicago 'burbs
     
Mar 11, 2015 00:07 |  #2127

Bianchi wrote in post #17469776 (external link)
I know for a fact that they do not have the same underlying algorithms. The question was asked to Rudi Winston, the gentleman who does Canon's video's on how to.

I am sure Rudy is knowledgable. However, I personally would rely on Chucks tight connection with R&D as the source of truth. So, while Rudd provided his answer, my opinion is that Chuck's is more reliable (since they contradict each other according to you).




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bianchi
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,067 posts
Gallery: 56 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6861
Joined Jan 2010
Location: USA
Post edited over 4 years ago by Bianchi. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 11, 2015 01:23 |  #2128

gschlact wrote in post #17469804 (external link)
I am sure Rudy is knowledgable. However, I personally would rely on Chucks tight connection with R&D as the source of truth. So, while Rudd provided his answer, my opinion is that Chuck's is more reliable (since they contradict each other according to you).


This is a question and answer from one of the members here to Rudy


Methodical21 month ago (edited)

"Rudy, Question. Hopefully you are reading this.

Does anything else distinguish the six AF cases from each other, besides the three adjustable tracking parameter settings under each Case?

In other words, if I manually adjusted the three parameters under Case 1 to have the exact same values as the default settings under Case 6, would Cases 1 and 6 then perform exactly the same? Or would there still be some behavioral difference between the two, governed by internal parameters that are not adjustable by the user? Basically, are the 6 cases just 6 different presets for different action type shots to make things easier for some shooters or does each AF case function differently via some special AF algorithm? This question has surfaced on several forums and there are many interpretations.

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

Hi Methodical2,

Great question. The AF Case do have built-in parameters that are not user modifiable. As an example, Case 1 might jump to a subject that appears suddenly in the image and crosses and active AF point, Case 2 will try to ignore it. Case 3 will try to lock on and track a new subject that appears in front of the first target. These differences are explained in the EOS 7D Mark II AF-Setting Guidebook at http://downloads.canon​.com …_AF_guide_CUSA_​9-2014.pdf (external link) and in the full Instruction Manual. We hope you find this helpful.

Reply

· Methodical2

1 month ago (edited)

+CanonUSA Just to be clear. If I adjust Case 1 to the same settings as say Case 3 there are still non user modifiable AF algorithm going on behind the scene that makes the two AF cases different no matter the settings? Is this correct?

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

+Methodical2 Hello Methodical2,
That is correct, there are background settings in each case that cannot be modified. We hope this helps.

Reply

Methodical2

1 month ago

+CanonUSA Yes that helps tremendously

You posted
"1. Definitively, the Case numbers in the AF Configuration Tool are simply a convenient preset of the values fed to the underlying algorithm. The different Cases (numbers) simply represent a different combination of setting values!"

Perhaps you may be interpreting this incorrectly


My Gear flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 11, 2015 07:49 |  #2129

Bianchi wrote in post #17469844 (external link)
This is a question and answer from one of the members here to Rudy

Methodical21 month ago (edited)

"Rudy, Question. Hopefully you are reading this.

Does anything else distinguish the six AF cases from each other, besides the three adjustable tracking parameter settings under each Case?

In other words, if I manually adjusted the three parameters under Case 1 to have the exact same values as the default settings under Case 6, would Cases 1 and 6 then perform exactly the same? Or would there still be some behavioral difference between the two, governed by internal parameters that are not adjustable by the user? Basically, are the 6 cases just 6 different presets for different action type shots to make things easier for some shooters or does each AF case function differently via some special AF algorithm? This question has surfaced on several forums and there are many interpretations.

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

Hi Methodical2,

Great question. The AF Case do have built-in parameters that are not user modifiable. As an example, Case 1 might jump to a subject that appears suddenly in the image and crosses and active AF point, Case 2 will try to ignore it. Case 3 will try to lock on and track a new subject that appears in front of the first target. These differences are explained in the EOS 7D Mark II AF-Setting Guidebook at http://downloads.canon​.com …_AF_guide_CUSA_​9-2014.pdf (external link) and in the full Instruction Manual. We hope you find this helpful.

Reply

· Methodical2

1 month ago (edited)

+CanonUSA Just to be clear. If I adjust Case 1 to the same settings as say Case 3 there are still non user modifiable AF algorithm going on behind the scene that makes the two AF cases different no matter the settings? Is this correct?

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

+Methodical2 Hello Methodical2,
That is correct, there are background settings in each case that cannot be modified. We hope this helps.

Reply

Methodical2

1 month ago

+CanonUSA Yes that helps tremendously

You posted
"1. Definitively, the Case numbers in the AF Configuration Tool are simply a convenient preset of the values fed to the underlying algorithm. The different Cases (numbers) simply represent a different combination of setting values!"

Perhaps you may be interpreting this incorrectly

This is what I remembered reading!! Basically, he's saying that the user programmable values can be changed and affect how the underlying algorithms run. But, the underlying algorithms are trying to do separate and distinct things within the cases and, therefore, act different even if the user values are the exact same.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gschlact
Senior Member
1,318 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 487
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chicago 'burbs
     
Mar 11, 2015 10:00 |  #2130

huntersdad wrote in post #17470030 (external link)
This is what I remembered reading!! Basically, he's saying that the user programmable values can be changed and affect how the underlying algorithms run. But, the underlying algorithms are trying to do separate and distinct things within the cases and, therefore, act different even if the user values are the exact same.

I asked the exact same questions. His Chuck's answer did not indicate any reason to think there were further differences between the cases besides the user adjusted parameter values for a given camera. I'll ask him to review your post / exchange. It would benefit the community to reconcile the different Canon responses. As customers, we certainly can't.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,406,215 views & 2,732 likes for this thread
7D Mark II - Focus Discussions
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is keke10
1195 guests, 283 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.