Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Birds 
Thread started 17 Mar 2015 (Tuesday) 20:49
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Cooper's Hawk, how would you have done it?

 
Terry ­ McDaniel
Senior Member
Avatar
407 posts
Gallery: 177 photos
Likes: 848
Joined Sep 2014
Location: Lebanon, OK
     
Mar 17, 2015 20:49 |  #1

Heavy overcast, camera in auto, first photo was too much silhouette against the sky. I subtracted two stops compensation and took these photos. For once I'm happy with focus, but less than pleased with exposure. Too far for any flash to help, plus flash would have dropped shutter speed from 1/800(if I remember right) to 1/200. What else could be done. Photos are cropped to just show the hawk. Would seeing the original help?


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Beekeeper
Goldmember
2,996 posts
Gallery: 46 photos
Likes: 2071
Joined May 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio, United States
     
Mar 17, 2015 21:38 |  #2

Looks like a Sharp-shinned hawk. What camera and settings were you using? I'm still working on figuring out shots taken against the sky.


Zach--C&C is welcome on my photos
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/46367607@N06/ (external link)
7DI Body Gripped|7DII Gripped|EF 85mm1.8|EF 50mm1.4|EF 100mm2.8L IS Macro|EF-S 10-22mm|EF 400mm5.6L|430EXII|580E​XII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Terry ­ McDaniel
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
407 posts
Gallery: 177 photos
Likes: 848
Joined Sep 2014
Location: Lebanon, OK
     
Mar 17, 2015 22:52 |  #3

Canon Rebel 1000D Here are originals, just compressed enough to load here.

First one is in Program mode, 1/2000, f5.6, ISO 400 This was is not quite focused, so I didn't post it in the OP

Second one is, I think, sports mode, 1/500, f8, ISO 800. I dialed down two stops exposure compensation in hopes of brightening the hawk against the bright clouds. Wondering if I'd adjusted white balance for cloudy day if that would have helped. I usually leave it on sunny.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Beekeeper
Goldmember
2,996 posts
Gallery: 46 photos
Likes: 2071
Joined May 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio, United States
Post edited over 4 years ago by Beekeeper. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 17, 2015 23:29 |  #4

Exposure looks pretty good in the first one, but too high on the second--its blown out. Cropping too much hurts also.

I shoot in manual mode so I can control and adjust everything. I would have shot that hawk at around 1200-1600ths of a second, F6.3 or 7.1 and sometimes F8 or 9 depending on conditions. I try to keep my ISO at 500 or below, but often leave it on automatic. Accipiters like the hawk pictured are often fast moving so I usually keep my shutter speed up on them whereas on slower moving birds like Red-tails I can lower my shutter speed to around 640th on perched birds. I've even shot hunting herons as low as 1/60th in low light since they don't move much. Sometimes you can do everything you can to get a good shot, and it still doesn't work out. I bought my camera and lens back in August, and just got out and started practicing. I used my pet ducks and chickens for my first shots. House sparrows, while common and tame, make good birds to work with too since they are so common and usually rather tame. All the reading I've done has come from this forum, and I've learned a lot. Hope this helps.

Zach


Zach--C&C is welcome on my photos
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/46367607@N06/ (external link)
7DI Body Gripped|7DII Gripped|EF 85mm1.8|EF 50mm1.4|EF 100mm2.8L IS Macro|EF-S 10-22mm|EF 400mm5.6L|430EXII|580E​XII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Steinn
Member
Avatar
115 posts
Gallery: 99 photos
Best ofs: 3
Likes: 274
Joined Feb 2015
Location: Tromsø, Norway
     
Mar 18, 2015 03:51 |  #5

Shooting (nearly) always in AV and adjusting +/- due to situation, here I would chosen +1 or even +1 2/3 for a start when the dark bird sits against the bright sky/clouds.
This Rough-legged Buzzard from Norway against the clouds is taken with handheld 100-400L IS and 7D in AV (Aperture value) and EV +1


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Stein Ø. Nilsen tromsofoto.net
Tromsø - Norway
Photo - Birdsound - Guide

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JohnMajor
Senior Member
Avatar
321 posts
Gallery: 57 photos
Likes: 265
Joined Oct 2012
Location: Schenectady NY USA
     
Mar 18, 2015 05:02 |  #6

Here's another vote for Manual mode. With my 7D and 100-400L, I usually set the ISO at 400, but will bump it up to 1600 if need be. Shutter speed in the 1/500 to 1/1500 range, and aperture at whatever is needed for the light - I shoot a lot wide open at f5.6, generally don't go smaller than f8. I'll take meter readings as conditions change. Almost all of my wildlife shooting is handheld and I try to be ready for "grab shots" as they present themselves. If the subject is cooperative and I think of it, may take the time to deviate from the "walk around" settings to fine tune the shutter speed and aperture to better fit the situation. For birds in the sky, I've had better luck using the same exposure that I would for a bird on the ground rather than trying to meter pointed with them in the sky. I shoot in RAW and process in Lightroom, seems to give more latitude for adjustments if things weren't spot on.


Visit my Flickr site: https://www.flickr.com​/photos/121865961@N02/​albums (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
2n10
Cream of the Crop
17,067 posts
Gallery: 79 photos
Likes: 1155
Joined Sep 2012
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
     
Mar 18, 2015 05:51 |  #7

Another manual mode vote. What lens and photo editor are you using? I noticed the heavy chromatic aberration. Congrats on the focus, not easy when the subject is among the sticks.


John
Equipment
My Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Terry ­ McDaniel
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
407 posts
Gallery: 177 photos
Likes: 848
Joined Sep 2014
Location: Lebanon, OK
     
Mar 18, 2015 08:08 |  #8

Thanks for the replies. I don't have any editing software, other than what came with Windows on the computer. I downloaded a program on this computer that lets me open photos in RAW, but when you click the edit button it re-opens the photo in JPEG, so I'm not sure I've gained anything there. Quite honestly, I don't know enough about editing to do any, other than cropping, and playing with brightness. As far as cropping goes, my thoughts are, "What good is a picture if the subject is just a little dot?" My goal in any bird photography is the eyes. If the eyes are in focus I'm usually happy. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just the way I think. Definitely not trying to start an argument.

I'm about to decide I'm not smart enough for this forum. You guys are GOOD! Modern equipment makes it pretty easy to get a good picture, but it is still really hard to get a REALLY good picture. Doesn't mean I"m gonna quit trying though.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Beekeeper
Goldmember
2,996 posts
Gallery: 46 photos
Likes: 2071
Joined May 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio, United States
Post edited over 4 years ago by Beekeeper.
     
Mar 18, 2015 10:00 |  #9

Don't give up Terry! There's a lot of really helpful people on this forum. Go to the bird talk forum and read the free textbook for beginners thread.


Zach--C&C is welcome on my photos
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/46367607@N06/ (external link)
7DI Body Gripped|7DII Gripped|EF 85mm1.8|EF 50mm1.4|EF 100mm2.8L IS Macro|EF-S 10-22mm|EF 400mm5.6L|430EXII|580E​XII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
2n10
Cream of the Crop
17,067 posts
Gallery: 79 photos
Likes: 1155
Joined Sep 2012
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
     
Mar 18, 2015 10:31 |  #10

Definitely don't give up. Lightroom is good and not too expensive and will do a lot of the work for you if you set it up that way.


John
Equipment
My Portfolio (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
49,723 posts
Gallery: 161 photos
Likes: 6389
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
Post edited over 4 years ago by CyberDyneSystems.
     
Mar 18, 2015 10:32 |  #11

At that distance, in those conditions, I would have taken the shot as you did, and move on knowing it was not a keeper.

Good photos are made with good light and conditions. (with some exceptions of course)

When nothing can be done, you can take a shot to add the bird to your collection or "life list" but it isn't a photo.

for birding, the ultimate aspect of a successful shot is being there and being close.
When faced with a shot like this, nothing you can do in camera or post can fix what was missing at the time of shutter release.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
IAbowhntr
Member
Avatar
166 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 19
Joined Mar 2015
     
Mar 18, 2015 10:59 |  #12

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17480493 (external link)
At that distance, in those conditions, I would have taken the shot as you did, and move on knowing it was not a keeper.

Good photos are made with good light and conditions. (with some exceptions of course)

When nothing can be done, you can take a shot to add the bird to your collection or "life list" but it isn't a photo.

for birding, the ultimate aspect of a successful shot is being there and being close.
When faced with a shot like this, nothing you can do in camera or post can fix what was missing at the time of shutter release.


excellent advice ... just gives you an excuse to get back out there learn and try try again!!

Steve


flickr (external link)
Feel free to visit my FB page and give it a like!
https://www.facebook.c​om …hy/390356554484​017?ref=hl (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ldn323
Goldmember
Avatar
1,165 posts
Gallery: 358 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3971
Joined Dec 2006
     
Mar 18, 2015 11:03 |  #13

Terry ... you did not mention which lens you used for that shot. I am not familiar with the Rebel body you use so I am not sure if my suggestion here would work for you or not. Nevertheless, I would:
- Get out of Program or Sport mode. I would use Tv mode in this case
- Set the speed between 1/500 to 1/800. I don't think it is critical here because the hawk was stationary
- Set the ISO to 400. I used to have a Rebel XTi and ISO 800 on that body was quite noisy
- Set focus mode to spot focus to minimize interferences from branches, etc. (not sure if Rebel 1000D has this focusing mode or not)
- Set exposure to spot exposure to ignore bright background (not sure if Rebel 1000D has this exposure mode or not)
- Keep the focus/measuring spot firmly on the hawk
- Adjust speed and/or ISO as necessary to get a decent aperture (depending on what lens you use)
- Take a half step or so to the left to avoid the foreground leaves/branches
- Then take the shots

That is what I would do in this case if the equipment allows those settings.


Linh
1Dx, 7D Mark II, XTi, Fujifilm X-T1, Fujifilm X100s, Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Contemporary, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS II, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II, Canon 24-105mm f/4 L IS, Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Fujifilm XF 35mm f/2 R WR, Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Terry ­ McDaniel
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
407 posts
Gallery: 177 photos
Likes: 848
Joined Sep 2014
Location: Lebanon, OK
     
Mar 18, 2015 13:16 |  #14

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17480493 (external link)
At that distance, in those conditions, I would have taken the shot as you did, and move on knowing it was not a keeper.

Good photos are made with good light and conditions. (with some exceptions of course)

When nothing can be done, you can take a shot to add the bird to your collection or "life list" but it isn't a photo.

for birding, the ultimate aspect of a successful shot is being there and being close.
When faced with a shot like this, nothing you can do in camera or post can fix what was missing at the time of shutter release.

Great thoughts. As the old saying goes, some days are diamonds, some days are coal. At least I have a decent picture of a beautiful bird.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Terry ­ McDaniel
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
407 posts
Gallery: 177 photos
Likes: 848
Joined Sep 2014
Location: Lebanon, OK
     
Mar 18, 2015 13:34 |  #15

ldn323 wrote in post #17480545 (external link)
Terry ... you did not mention which lens you used for that shot. I am not familiar with the Rebel body you use so I am not sure if my suggestion here would work for you or not. Nevertheless, I would:
- Get out of Program or Sport mode. I would use Tv mode in this case
- Set the speed between 1/500 to 1/800. I don't think it is critical here because the hawk was stationary
- Set the ISO to 400. I used to have a Rebel XTi and ISO 800 on that body was quite noisy
- Set focus mode to spot focus to minimize interferences from branches, etc. (not sure if Rebel 1000D has this focusing mode or not)
- Set exposure to spot exposure to ignore bright background (not sure if Rebel 1000D has this exposure mode or not)
- Keep the focus/measuring spot firmly on the hawk
- Adjust speed and/or ISO as necessary to get a decent aperture (depending on what lens you use)
- Take a half step or so to the left to avoid the foreground leaves/branches
- Then take the shots

That is what I would do in this case if the equipment allows those settings.

It will do the spot metering and spot focus, that's what I had it on. I was using a Canon 75-300mm lens. I'd estimate distance to hawk was about 30 yards. I really haven't noticed a lot of noise, although admittedly sharpness goes down as ISO goes up. My camera goes to 1600 ISO. Even at 1600 pictures are clearer than the 1000 ISO film from years ago and my old AE-1 camera.
It has three exposure modes, averageing, spot and centerweight. The manual says the centerweight is for advanced folks, but doesn't say why. I nearly always keep it on centerweight and center spot focus. I reckon it's a decent entry level DSLR, my kids and wife bought it for me for Christmas 5 or 6 years ago. Last year I joined a couple of facebook groups, OKBugHunters and Oklahoma Nature and Wildlife. There's a feller on the Nature and Wildlife uses a Nikon point and shoot, he's posted some NatGeo quality pictures with it. Give the two groups a looksee.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

3,339 views & 1 like for this thread
Cooper's Hawk, how would you have done it?
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Birds 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Car147
937 guests, 207 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.