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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Mar 14, 2015 17:35 |  #841

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #17474844 (external link)
Good analogy, but if it's a crap cake, you'd need lots of frosting to make it palatable, so get the basics right first with a good cake ;-)a

Bam

My wife made pork chops tonight. She has to take the extra step of making gravy to douse them in, when I make pork chops they are great right out of the pan.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Aswald
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Mar 15, 2015 22:05 |  #842

Copperny wrote in post #17474117 (external link)
FOOD FOR THOUGHT. When Masaya Maeda - Managing Director and Chief Executive, Image Communication Products Operations at Canon. Was asked this question> "Hypothetically, if Sony made an APS-C or full-frame sensor that you considered to be the best possible sensor for a camera that you wanted to bring to market, would you use it?"

His Answer was, "If another company made a sensor that we believed to be truly the best quality, we would not hesitate to use it."
Full interview here http://www.dpreview.co​m …ry-day-im-saying-speed-up (external link)

I myself would not be surprised if canon used a sony sensor in the new 5DMIV


Just like Apple using Samsung chips! :-D

Actually nothing wrong with Canon using Sony sensors....they'll always inject their own color and picture formula anyway.




  
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Aswald
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Mar 15, 2015 22:11 |  #843

David Arbogast wrote in post #17472925 (external link)
You're "banking" on it? That is a lousy investment scheme. :lol:

If the 5D IV is going to do anything impressive DR-wise, wouldn't that performance already be in the 5DS sensor? Curb your enthusiasm/ lower your expectations. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get a 12.6 Evs DR with the 5D IV. ;)

I've always shot Canon as somehow it works for me and my photography.

I've invested in some L lenses which works well for me too.

Although I use Fujifilm and Olympus, I always go for the Canons when I need to get serious. So, I literally have to "bank" on 5D4. :-D...you may be right about the 12.6 evs DR but I'm hoping something better. :oops:




  
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jonneymendoza
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Mar 16, 2015 07:04 |  #844

wait what? fellow toggers prefer more pixels?


Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickr (external link)

  
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Gaarryy
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Mar 21, 2015 19:01 as a reply to  @ jonneymendoza's post |  #845

http://www.imaging-resource.com …/canon-5ds-rA.HTM#HIGHRES (external link)


---------------Camera, Lens, Flash stuff.. but still wanting more

  
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Mornnb
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Mar 21, 2015 19:05 |  #846

Aswald wrote in post #17472817 (external link)
If it ever does....I'm not sure DR was Canon's main goal when they developed the 5Ds/R. I think it was resolution. It definitely appeals to very specific target group who needs such huge resolution.

For DR, I'm banking on the 5Dmk4. 24-36mpix with prob 14 or so stops of DR.

Having said that, I still see plenty of beautifully taken pics from current canon sensors and many crappy pics taken with Sony sensors.....and vice versa. So, 1 or 2 stops of DR will definitely help is very extreme cases but in most cases, some skill and perhaps post editing will gain good enough results.

The target group that cares a lot about high resolution, tends to be the same target group that cares a lot about dynamic range.
Landscape shooters.


Canon 5D Mark III - Leica M240
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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 21, 2015 20:07 |  #847

Anyone pre-ordering their 5DS or 5DS R on Monday? I think I will, although I am still waiting to see Sony's (hopefully soon) 50 MP announcement.

A 50 MP Sony with a superior sensor and a markedly lower price will be tough to pass on, even though there are those other factors I will likely prefer about the 5DS R.


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Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 21, 2015 20:17 |  #848

I got all excited when I saw that I-R has samples, but there are no RAWs yet ... bummer.

Before anyone says, "but there is no converter yet"; yes, I can convert it; I don't need Adobe or Canon for that, unless the format has changed significantly. LibRAW and DCRAW can almost always decode new camera RAWs.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 21, 2015 20:18 |  #849

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17477140 (external link)
wait what? fellow toggers prefer more pixels?

More pixels in number = pixels have less visibility. Low pixel counts are for pixel lovers!




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Mar 21, 2015 20:30 |  #850

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #17472952 (external link)
i'm sure someone will be in to either correct, clarify, or obfuscate my point, but every bit of my tiny understanding of sensor technology suggests that larger sensels are more able to catch light resulting in a better S/N ratio. So even if using the exact same technology in the 53MP, a sensor of 25-30 MP will be "allowed" better DR because of a lower S/N ratio.

Not at all. The only way to get more image-level base-ISO DR with Canon's sensor technology is to have as many pixels as possible on the sensor. The pixel-level DR is pretty much fixed, regardless of pixel size. In fact, most P&S cameras these days, with their tiny pixels, have just as much pixel-level DR as any Canon FF sensor.

If Canon made a 1 MP FF sensor with their current technology, it would be the worst DSLR in image-level base-ISO DR by a large margin.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 21, 2015 21:30 |  #851

RDKirk wrote in post #17473365 (external link)
Interview with Canon Inc executive:
http://www.dpreview.co​m …ry-day-im-saying-speed-up (external link)

Q: Canon offered a maximum pixel count of ~22MP for seven years before the launch of the EOS 5DS and 5DS R. Why did it take that long to increase resolution?

A: I wasn't actually aware that it had been seven years! The biggest reason it took this long to get to 50MP is the targets we set for pixel-level quality. Every year we sit down with photojournalists, and listen to their demands - what they need to do their job - and the biggest demand was that even if pixel count increased, actual pixel-level image quality would not decrease.

Obviously at the same time as we were seeing demand for increased pixel-level quality we were also being asked for increased pixel-count. The reason the time finally came for us to release the EOS 5DS and 5DS R this year was that we found a means of satisfying the demand for increased pixel count without sacrificing quality. It took us that long to reach this level.

Q: You must watch the industry very closely - what did you learn from watching Sony and Nikon go before you, in terms of offering nigher resolutions?

A: There's nothing in particular that we learned from Nikon or Sony, but as I said before, we had many demands from photographers all over the world not to sacrifice image quality, so that's what we placed emphasis on and our main priority [during the design process of the EOS 5DS and 5DS R] was to satisfy those photographers.

I think this interview says it all, really.

They've only listened to photojournalists, and those with a journalistic shooting style (events, weddings, etc.), rather than any other kind of photographer.

Which completely explains the fixation on high ISO and the total neglect of any sort of improvement in low-ISO image quality since the 1Ds3.

Still, I'd like to see what 50MP does in terms of improvd image-level DR. Would be interesting to see some deep shadows pushed 4-5 stops and compared with the D810.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 21, 2015 21:42 |  #852

David Arbogast wrote in post #17485830 (external link)
Anyone pre-ordering their 5DS or 5DS R on Monday? I think I will, although I am still waiting to see Sony's (hopefully soon) 50 MP announcement.

A 50 MP Sony with a superior sensor and a markedly lower price will be tough to pass on, even though there are those other factors I will likely prefer about the 5DS R.

SonyAlphaRumors have a SR5 rumour (historically 100% accurate) of new Sony E-mount releases in late March-April, which includes an A7r successor. Then there is also the A9 series later in the year.

Looks like I may be running a split system for the forseeable future, with the 5Ds for wildlife photography and the A7rII or A9r for everything else (using manual focus), sharing the same lenses.

Hopefully Sony get their act together and get rid of the lossy RAW compression in favour of a lossless or uncompressed one (which they previously used in A-mount cameras). SD cards are cheap, but shooting trips to recapture what was missed last time are not. Otherwise I might well buy the D810's successor with 14-24, Sigma 35, Sigma 50/Otus 55 and Nikon 70-200, leaving Canon purely for wildlife photography with long lenses (since I'd be using completely different focal lengths for each sort of photography, I wouldn't be duplicating lenses by running multiple systems). The loss of the tilt-shift lenses would hurt, but I'd still be able to run them by using a Sony A7rII as a backup/second body to the Nikon.




  
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tvphotog
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Mar 21, 2015 22:35 as a reply to  @ Shadowblade's post |  #853

The lossy RAW images is a dealbreaker for me, regardless of DR. I will wait for the 5DR/S reviews and pictures.


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Ireland in Word and Image (external link) Jay Ben Images (external link)5D IV | 5DS/R | Powershot S100 | 24-105L | 100-400 IIL | 16-35 f/2.8 IIL | 24 T/S f /3.5L II | 17 T/S f/4L | 50mm f/1.2L | 35mm f/1.4L | 70-200 f/2.8L II | 580 EX II | 600 EX-RT | Feisol 3441T/Markins Q3T lever QR | Gitzo 3542L Markins Qi20 BV-22 | Gitzo 5561T RRS MH-02

  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 21, 2015 23:40 |  #854

tvphotog wrote in post #17485983 (external link)
The lossy RAW images is a dealbreaker for me, regardless of DR. I will wait for the 5DR/S reviews and pictures.

It's certainly suboptimal. But at least it gives me the detail I need, rather than blowing them into white or drowning the shadows in noise.

I'd have bought the D800e a long time ago if Nikon had some decent tilt-shifts, or could use the Canon ones.




  
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Mornnb
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Mornnb. (3 edits in all)
     
Mar 22, 2015 00:09 |  #855

John Sheehy wrote in post #17485856 (external link)
Not at all. The only way to get more image-level base-ISO DR with Canon's sensor technology is to have as many pixels as possible on the sensor. The pixel-level DR is pretty much fixed, regardless of pixel size. In fact, most P&S cameras these days, with their tiny pixels, have just as much pixel-level DR as any Canon FF sensor.

If Canon made a 1 MP FF sensor with their current technology, it would be the worst DSLR in image-level base-ISO DR by a large margin.


Low ISO noise is mainly picked up in the ADC and analog circuitary between the sensor and the Digic chip. Canon's pixels are excellent and pick up very little noise we can see this in the high ISO performance, it's the ADC which is letting the system down.
What Sony is doing different is on sensor analog to digital conversion. Canon hasn't figured out how to do this without violating Sony's patents.

Leica is doing similar to Sony, their CMOSIS sensor is doing on-sensor ADC and provides extremely low noise
shadows and 13EV of dynamic range, not quite as much as Sony's 14EV but the shadows are very clean and low noise.


Canon 5D Mark III - Leica M240
EF 16-35mm F/4 IS L - EF 14mm f/2.8 L II - - EF 17mm TS-E L - EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II - EF 70-200mm IS II f/2.8 L - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art - Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX
Voigtlander 15mm III - 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH - 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-M FLE - 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH
500px (external link)

  
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced
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