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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
Mornnb
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Mar 22, 2015 17:57 |  #886

One can easily pick up a Sony A7r it will work with Canon lenses well via an adaptor. Canon's are much better than Sony's own lenses.


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tvphotog
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Mar 22, 2015 18:11 |  #887

Canon will get the idea if people vote with their wallets. That's the only way things will ever change for them. As everyone says, there are now other options.


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LonelyBoy
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Mar 22, 2015 19:56 |  #888

Mornnb wrote in post #17487108 (external link)
It bothers a lot of people. And is a really big deal for certain types of photography it is more important than resolution.

The constant yammering about it bothers a lot of people. So it's a big deal. We get it. You don't need to keep repeating it; no one here is the person who needs to be convinced, and all it does is clutter up every thread it's mentioned on. This camera doesn't meet your needs? Fair enough, move on to something else.


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RDKirk
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Mar 22, 2015 20:16 |  #889

tvphotog wrote in post #17487134 (external link)
Canon will get the idea if people vote with their wallets. That's the only way things will ever change for them. As everyone says, there are now other options.

Unless Canon Japan has accurately defined the intended market niche for the camera, in which case they will be successful in their sales goals even if others outside that niche don't buy it.




  
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LonelyBoy
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Mar 22, 2015 20:30 |  #890

tvphotog wrote in post #17487134 (external link)
Canon will get the idea if people vote with their wallets. That's the only way things will ever change for them. As everyone says, there are now other options.

Odd, then, that people would rather complain about Canon than take one of the other options.


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phantelope
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Mar 22, 2015 20:36 |  #891

I've never run into any DR issues since my first digital DSLR, a 40D, I doubt it's as big of an issue as some make it out to be. Not once did I come across the 'evil' banding. I guess there are situations where more would be better, but I doubt they are relevant enough for Canon to address - or they would. Just my 2ct, and since there are other options out there, go with them if it's that important.

To me this always sounds like complaining that a mini van doesn't go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds :-D


40D, 5D3, a bunch of lenses and other things :cool:

  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 22, 2015 21:01 |  #892

I'm going to stop complaining about DR when low-light photographers start accepting that ISO 1600 is more than enough low-light capability and sports photographers accept a 4fps camera. After all, I almost never see a need to go faster than ISO 400 (or anything above baseline for landscapes), while 4fps is more than fast enough for the things I shoot.


Not going to happen? ISO 1600 too restrictive for your photographic needs? It's the same with DR for myself and many other landscapers and architectural photographers (not so much studio, since they can control the light).

Just as you can't capture live music in dark venues at ISO 1600 with acceptable image quality, I can't capture high-contrast landscapes with an uneven horizon (precluding filters) with 12 stops of DR. And no amount of skill or technique can change that - it's a technical limitation, much like trying to get a colour print out of a black-and-white printer. And it's supremely disappointing that Canon, which delivered so much in the early days of the crossover from film (with the 1Ds3 and 5D2) hasn't progressed at all since then - at least in a way that landscape and non-action photographers care about.




  
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davidc502
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Mar 22, 2015 21:46 |  #893

Thinking out loud and logically here, but it seems either Canon can't produce a sensor with better DR, doesn't think it's that important (no improvements needed), or at some point will be in the works (We will do it when good and ready).

Take your pick.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Mar 22, 2015 21:48 |  #894

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487363 (external link)
I'm going to stop complaining about DR when low-light photographers start accepting that ISO 1600 is more than enough low-light capability and sports photographers accept a 4fps camera. After all, I almost never see a need to go faster than ISO 400 (or anything above baseline for landscapes), while 4fps is more than fast enough for the things I shoot.

The difference lies in the gulf between "accepting" and "complaining". Specifically, mentioning it once or twice or making it an on going issue to the point that it is put up as an argumet against Canon virtually every single time one makes a post. What's the end goal here? Certainly the DR posse doesn't think Canon is going to weight the opinion of a vocal minority so heavily that they will alter long term R&D and marketing strategies?

I don't want to make this personal, but the more I hear about it the less interested I am in the opinions of those incessantly beating the DR drum. I get it, I got it a long time ago. Those of us that are not shouting from the virtual rooftops are not idiots, we simply have our own opinion that is not the same as yours.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 22, 2015 22:03 |  #895

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #17487433 (external link)
The difference lies in the gulf between "accepting" and "complaining". Specifically, mentioning it once or twice or making it an on going issue to the point that it is put up as an argumet against Canon virtually every single time one makes a post. What's the end goal here? Certainly the DR posse doesn't think Canon is going to weight the opinion of a vocal minority so heavily that they will alter long term R&D and marketing strategies?

I don't want to make this personal, but the more I hear about it the less interested I am in the opinions of those incessantly beating the DR drum. I get it, I got it a long time ago. Those of us that are not shouting from the virtual rooftops are not idiots, we simply have our own opinion that is not the same as yours.

That's all well and good when Canon are making the products you want. You have nothing to complain about. You're not the one having to run multiple systems in parallel, with a Sony/Metabones setup (with all its lossy compression) for most shots and a pair of Canons in the bottom of the pack for those occasions you really need AF (e.g. for wildlife), or having to lose thousands of dollars and the use of your favoured tilt-shift lenses in switching to Nikon, when Canon promised so much when it first came out with a 21MP sensor that finally surpassed MF film.

If the shoe were on the other foot and Canon had an excellent sensor but the 5D3 only shot 5fps and went up to ISO 3200/6400, we'd be hearing no end of bleating from the low-light/action crowd. As we did when it was 5D2 vs D700, and the 5D2 failed to match the Nikon on any ground other than the sensor.




  
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Mornnb
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Mornnb. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 22, 2015 22:25 |  #896

RDKirk wrote in post #17487117 (external link)
That was hyperbole, right?


No it was not. I'd take a 20MP camera with 14EV of dynamic range over a 50MP camera with 12EV.

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487363 (external link)
I'm going to stop complaining about DR when low-light photographers start accepting that ISO 1600 is more than enough low-light capability and sports photographers accept a 4fps camera. After all, I almost never see a need to go faster than ISO 400 (or anything above baseline for landscapes), while 4fps is more than fast enough for the things I shoot.


Not going to happen? ISO 1600 too restrictive for your photographic needs? It's the same with DR for myself and many other landscapers and architectural photographers (not so much studio, since they can control the light).

Just as you can't capture live music in dark venues at ISO 1600 with acceptable image quality, I can't capture high-contrast landscapes with an uneven horizon (precluding filters) with 12 stops of DR.

Precisely. Shadowblade is making no exaggeration here about the importance of DR for landscape and architecture and the difficulties of working within 12EV. I picked up a Sony A7r precisely for these reasons, to get a decent sensor behind my Canon glass.


Canon 5D Mark III - Leica M240
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Shadowblade
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Mar 22, 2015 22:26 |  #897

phantelope wrote in post #17487323 (external link)
I've never run into any DR issues since my first digital DSLR, a 40D, I doubt it's as big of an issue as some make it out to be. Not once did I come across the 'evil' banding. I guess there are situations where more would be better, but I doubt they are relevant enough for Canon to address - or they would. Just my 2ct, and since there are other options out there, go with them if it's that important.

To me this always sounds like complaining that a mini van doesn't go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds :-D

Not surprising, really - you probably just never run into the limits.

It's like any other limit - you don't notice it and it doesn't pose any problems unless your style of photography makes you run into it repeatedly. If the scenes you shoot only have 7-8 stops of DR, you'll never see a difference between a sensor with 12 stops of DR and 14 stops of DR, nor will you notice any shadow banding if you expose properly. Not so if the scenes you shoot regularly have 13-14 stops of DR, or even more. A bit like how you won't notice poor high-ISO performance if you always shoot at base ISO, or you won't notice poor colour depth if you shoot mainly in black-and-white.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 22, 2015 23:09 |  #898

Mornnb wrote in post #17487465 (external link)
No it was not. I'd take a 20MP camera with 14EV of dynamic range over a 50MP camera with 12EV.

I probably wouldn't - I need the DR, but I also print at huge sizes and need the resolution. Fortunately, we don't have to choose - the D810 and A7r both have 14-15 stops of DR as well as high resolution, with the next generation likely to push it even higher. Unfortunately, the D810 can't take Canon tilt-shifts and the A7r has lossy RAW compression (hopefully fixed with the pro-oriented A9 later this year).




  
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Nogo
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Mar 22, 2015 23:19 |  #899

B&H is now taking pre orders. http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …&N=3818536711&N​tt=cae5ds* (external link)


Philip
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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 22, 2015 23:32 |  #900

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487498 (external link)
and the A7r has lossy RAW compression (hopefully fixed with the pro-oriented A9 later this year).

Three painful immutable facts:
1. Canon won't improve DR
2. Nikon won't make exceptional tilt-shifts
3. Sony won't make a lossless raw file

Don't get your hopes up.


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