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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 08 Apr 2015 (Wednesday) 09:10
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New Canon C300 has 15 stops DR, good news?

 
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Apr 08, 2015 09:10 |  #1

the previous video camera is said to have 12, very similar to FF 6D and 5DIII.

i suspect this could be a sign of good things to come for us still shooters.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …t-canon-eos-c300-mark-ii/ (external link)


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tjbrock42
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Apr 08, 2015 15:03 |  #2

Please forgive my ignorance... If the 6D has approximately 12 (based on your post), how many do the comparable Nikon cameras(D800?), that everyone raves about, have? In other words, would a jump to 15 bring Canon close to or surpass that of the Sony sensors?

Sorry, I just don't know much about quantifying DR.


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Apr 08, 2015 15:06 |  #3

tjbrock42 wrote in post #17509553 (external link)
Please forgive my ignorance... If the 6D has approximately 12 (based on your post), how many do the comparable Nikon cameras(D800?), that everyone raves about, have? In other words, would a jump to 15 bring Canon close to or surpass that of the Sony sensors?

Sorry, I just don't know much about quantifying DR.

if i remember correctly, i think 6D is 11.7 and the best Sony/Nikons are around 13.5


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bobbyz
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Apr 08, 2015 16:00 |  #4

Is DR same as being able to bring up exposure in post at lower ISO that Sony sensor are famous for? I think they are different things but I am no expert.


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Apr 08, 2015 18:05 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #5

The Canon 6d has 12.1 and my crop Nikon D5500 has 14.


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bobbyz
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Apr 08, 2015 22:43 |  #6

canon rookie wrote in post #17509795 (external link)
The Canon 6d has 12.1 and my crop Nikon D5500 has 14.

Sure? I thought only Sony sensors were the good one and I am sure Nikon crop bodies don't use them.


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maverick75
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Apr 08, 2015 23:56 |  #7

MORE DR is always great news!


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Apr 09, 2015 01:26 |  #8

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #17509117 (external link)
the previous video camera is said to have 12, very similar to FF 6D and 5DIII.

i suspect this could be a sign of good things to come for us still shooters.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …t-canon-eos-c300-mark-ii/ (external link)

I very much doubt that you can draw any conclusions from the DR of a processed HDR image from a 9 MP video camera (or even gain useful hints) regarding the qualities of any future still sensor that is likely to be at least four times the resolution with much smaller pixels and outputting unprocessed Raw.


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Shadowblade
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Apr 09, 2015 01:33 |  #9

tzalman wrote in post #17510270 (external link)
I very much doubt that you can draw any conclusions from the DR of a processed HDR image from a 9 MP video camera (or even gain useful hints) regarding the qualities of any future still sensor that is likely to be at least four times the resolution with much smaller pixels and outputting unprocessed Raw.

Increasing the resolution actually increases the whole-image dynamic range. If they can get 15 stops out of a 9MP sensor, they should be able to do even better with a 60MP sensor.




  
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jonneymendoza
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Apr 09, 2015 04:51 |  #10

canon rookie wrote in post #17509795 (external link)
The Canon 6d has 12.1 and my crop Nikon D5500 has 14.

my a7s has 13.1 stops DR


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tzalman
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Apr 09, 2015 08:35 |  #11

Shadowblade wrote in post #17510273 (external link)
Increasing the resolution actually increases the whole-image dynamic range. If they can get 15 stops out of a 9MP sensor, they should be able to do even better with a 60MP sensor.

But they aren't getting 15 stops from the sensor. They are getting it from HDR processing well downstream from the sensor:

The C300 Mark II has a newly developed Super 35mm sensor and Canon claims 15 stops for the C300 Mark II but this figure is not based on the sensor but some internal trickery.

The 15 stops is done by taking the raw sensor data and running it through dual image processors at two different ISOs (high and low) before making a composite image from the dual raw stream.

So Canon’s claims for the C300 Mark II at 15 stops needs further scrutiny, like Sony’s claims for 15 stop dynamic range on the Sony A7S which didn’t stack up in the real-world. I expect actual usable dynamic range will be similar to the Sony FS7. Still very good and comparable to film but I think the sensor itself really has a different dynamic range to the one Canon is quoting. It might be that the raw sensor output goes straight to the SDI port for the 4K raw output then we will see what it is really capable of without the Dual DIGIC trick.

http://www.eoshd.com …-pre-order-eoshd-opinion/ (external link)

You can do that with a 12 stop sensor and a two or three stop spread of ISOs. It is pretty much what Magic Lantern does already with Dual-ISO.


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Shadowblade
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Apr 09, 2015 11:23 |  #12

tzalman wrote in post #17510505 (external link)
But they aren't getting 15 stops from the sensor. They are getting it from HDR processing well downstream from the sensor:

http://www.eoshd.com …-pre-order-eoshd-opinion/ (external link)

You can do that with a 12 stop sensor and a two or three stop spread of ISOs. It is pretty much what Magic Lantern does already with Dual-ISO.

This is quite different.

If they're really reading it twice (or duplicating the data) they're doing a lot better than Magic Lantern.

Magic Lantern, I believe, just reads each line with alternating ISOs. This results in banding and loss of resolution in areas where either the highlights of the high-ISO image or the shadows of the low-ISO image are blown out, since these areas are only using data from every second line to generate the image and interpolating the rest.

If each pixel is, indeed, read twice or duplicated (rather than interpolated as with Magic Lantern) there should be no such loss of resolution and the gain in DR should be as real as that in the Exmor. After all, reading the shadows at full resolution at ISO 800 is exactly the same as reading it at ISO 100 and pushing three stops (as in the Sony sensor) in an ideal sensor, and superior if the sensor is less than ideal.




  
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Apr 10, 2015 10:07 |  #13

canonrumors.com is reporting that this will be implemented in 5D IV

"… this essentially works as a hardware implementation of what the Magic Lantern guys did with software, and actually takes it a bit further."


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John ­ Sheehy
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Apr 10, 2015 10:21 |  #14

Shadowblade wrote in post #17510707 (external link)
This is quite different.

If they're really reading it twice (or duplicating the data) they're doing a lot better than Magic Lantern.

Magic Lantern, I believe, just reads each line with alternating ISOs.

Is that really what they do? That doesn't really make sense, as red and blue pixels only appear in alternating lines, too, which would mean that red is read at one ISO and blue at the other. What would make more sense is to do two lines at ISO X, then two lines at ISO Y, etc.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 10, 2015 10:50 |  #15

John Sheehy wrote in post #17511875 (external link)
Is that really what they do? That doesn't really make sense, as red and blue pixels only appear in alternating lines, too, which would mean that red is read at one ISO and blue at the other. What would make more sense is to do two lines at ISO X, then two lines at ISO Y, etc.

It's something along those lines - not sure of the exact pattern and my description is simplified a lot, but each pixel is only read once, at either a low ISO or a high one.




  
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New Canon C300 has 15 stops DR, good news?
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