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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
idkdc
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Apr 15, 2015 18:54 |  #1141

mystik610 wrote in post #17518892 (external link)
The a7r actually handles very similarly to the 5D3, particularly once you map the custom buttons. In some ways, the a7r actually handles better than the 5D3. I.e I SO aperture and shutter speed each have their own dedicated control wheels.

I think he meant fumbling controls because of his unfamiliarity with the new system while also using the 5D3 at the same time. Legitimate concern. Most people buy similar cameras for similar controls.


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Shadowblade
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Apr 15, 2015 19:06 |  #1142

idkdc wrote in post #17518897 (external link)
I think he meant fumbling controls because of his unfamiliarity with the new system while also using the 5D3 at the same time. Legitimate concern. Most people buy similar cameras for similar controls.

This is much less of a concern in landscape photography.

A lot of landscape photography is pre-planned - you can spend two weeks just getting to the location, and end up getting there half an hour before the time you want to shoot, or even a few hours early. You have plenty of time to set up. And, if you shoot using technical cameras or MF backs, you need it. Setting up an SLR or mirrorless camera, even with unfamiliar controls, takes much less time.




  
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idkdc
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Apr 15, 2015 19:24 |  #1143

Shadowblade wrote in post #17518916 (external link)
This is much less of a concern in landscape photography.

A lot of landscape photography is pre-planned - you can spend two weeks just getting to the location, and end up getting there half an hour before the time you want to shoot, or even a few hours early. You have plenty of time to set up. And, if you shoot using technical cameras or MF backs, you need it. Setting up an SLR or mirrorless camera, even with unfamiliar controls, takes much less time.

I'll actually chase clouds and particular weather patterns, so sometimes setup time is actually crazy short with changing light and stuff. But if I didn't and I was fine with whatever was in the sky, I would do it that way. I think the main point that he was making was just being familiar with a system and keeping that other camera for other stuff would mean that it would be second nature when shooting with the landscape camera.

I'm not 100% against new systems myself, I'll switch systems if I really need to, just not ideal during an event for me, but not a big deal for me personally for landscape as you mentioned. That said, I liked the 5D3 and D810 controls a lot more than the A7 series on first and second impression, but haven't spent that much time on the a7 series (customizing buttons and the like).


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Apr 15, 2015 19:34 |  #1144

idkdc wrote in post #17518897 (external link)
I think he meant fumbling controls because of his unfamiliarity with the new system while also using the 5D3 at the same time. Legitimate concern. Most people buy similar cameras for similar controls.

That's what I meant. The controls are very similar to the 5DIII. Its nowhere near as disorienting as learning a Nikon .

I've shot done a number of shoots, including weddings, using the a7r alongside my 5DIII. Missing shots because of unfamiliarity with the system hadn't been an issue!


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Apr 15, 2015 19:36 |  #1145

mystik610 wrote in post #17518958 (external link)
That's what I meant. The controls are very similar to the 5DIII. Its nowhere near as disorienting as learning a Nikon .

I've shot done a number of shoots, including weddings, using the a7r alongside my 5DIII. Missing shots because of unfamiliarity with the system hadn't been an issue!

Hmm, I found the a7r controls more confusing than Nikon compared to Canon. Perhaps I should give it another try some other time. You said you had to program buttons, right? I always hated the extra step it took to change focus on the a7 series. Canon and Nikon always have direct to dpad/joystick controls, always preferred that.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Apr 15, 2015 19:45 |  #1146

tvphotog wrote in post #17518795 (external link)
Something I realized while shooting with the 5D3 the other day...I'm really very familiar with all the knobs, buttons and menus. I'm very fast at changing parameters to meet a shooting occasion. I'm considering the a7r upgrade for a high mpix sensor rather than the 5DR/S, but that means learning a completely different layout of everything.

There are enough problems on shoots, even those of landscapes, that I really don't want to be faced with questions about mechanics. Another reason to consider the 5DR/S preferentially.

Wait a few more weeks to see the a7R II announcement.

I agree there is a lot to like with the 5DS/R. It's sad: 2007 called and wants its 12-stop DR back, but otherwise I'm looking forward to it. If it will give us 12-stops of actually usable DR, it will at least be some progress.


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Apr 15, 2015 20:05 |  #1147

David Arbogast wrote in post #17518971 (external link)
Wait a few more weeks to see the a7R II announcement.

I agree there is a lot to like with the 5DS/R. It's sad: 2007 called and wants its 12-stop DR back, but otherwise I'm looking forward to it. If it will give us 12-stops of actually usable DR, it will at least be some progress.

Getting rid of the shadow noise would be good enough for me, but the more DR, the merrier.


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Apr 15, 2015 20:30 |  #1148

idkdc wrote in post #17518992 (external link)
Getting rid of the shadow noise would be good enough for me, but the more DR, the merrier.


Well getting rid of the shadow noise is what extending the DR is all about. It's not like you can extend the highlights as such.

Alan


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Apr 15, 2015 20:31 |  #1149

BigAl007 wrote in post #17519023 (external link)
Well getting rid of the shadow noise is what extending the DR is all about. It's not like you can extend the highlights as such.

Alan

So underexpose, right? That's what I do on the D700.


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Apr 15, 2015 20:52 |  #1150

idkdc wrote in post #17519026 (external link)
So underexpose, right? That's what I do on the D700.

No - you still expose to the right. That is, you place your highlights just short of clipping.

But sometimes, this means that the bulk of your shot ends up in the shadows. You may even be exposing to the right and the left at the same time. It's still correctly-exposed, not underexposed - just that the default curves of the camera or RAW converter may not be appropriate for an image with that much DR.




  
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Apr 15, 2015 20:55 |  #1151

BigAl007 wrote in post #17519023 (external link)
Well getting rid of the shadow noise is what extending the DR is all about. It's not like you can extend the highlights as such.

Alan

You can increase the well capacity in addition to reducing the read noise. This has the effect of lowering the ISO and increasing the dynamic range. Effectively, you're shifting the white point - 25000 photoelectrons in a photosite with 25000 capacity is 'white', but increase the capacity to 50000 and it's now one stop below white. If read noise stays the same (say, 4 photoelectrons) you've also increased the DR by 1 stop.




  
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Apr 15, 2015 21:02 |  #1152

Shadowblade wrote in post #17519049 (external link)
No - you still expose to the right. That is, you place your highlights just short of clipping.

But sometimes, this means that the bulk of your shot ends up in the shadows. You may even be exposing to the right and the left at the same time. It's still correctly-exposed, not underexposed - just that the default curves of the camera or RAW converter may not be appropriate for an image with that much DR.

i think that's what he means by "underexposing"... when i "ettr" it usually ends up being underexposed if you're talking the brightness straight out of the camera. almost all my pics have to be "pushed" during post to reach the right brightness.


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Apr 15, 2015 21:19 |  #1153

Xyclopx wrote in post #17519058 (external link)
i think that's what he means by "underexposing"... when i "ettr" it usually ends up being underexposed if you're talking the brightness straight out of the camera. almost all my pics have to be "pushed" during post to reach the right brightness.

Yup, spot on. Whatever the terminology, I think I'm doing the same thing as Shadowblade mentioned.


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Apr 15, 2015 22:24 |  #1154

BigAl007 wrote in post #17519023 (external link)
Well getting rid of the shadow noise is what extending the DR is all about. It's not like you can extend the highlights as such.

Alan

idkdc wrote in post #17519026 (external link)
So underexpose, right? That's what I do on the D700.

Once you decide what highlights you want to keep - not all bright areas need to be kept. So it will depend on that choice and the metering mode, as well as the scene, whether to "under" or "over" expose. ETTR usually results in "over" exposure, so the brightness is dialled back in post, resulting in less noise in the final image.


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Apr 15, 2015 23:30 |  #1155

AJSJones wrote in post #17519161 (external link)
Once you decide what highlights you want to keep - not all bright areas need to be kept. So it will depend on that choice and the metering mode, as well as the scene, whether to "under" or "over" expose. ETTR usually results in "over" exposure, so the brightness is dialled back in post, resulting in less noise in the final image.

Right, I remember that. I thought ETTR was a Canon thing, overexpose and bring it down, while Nikon is the opposite, underexpose and bring it up in post. Is this correct?


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