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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 21 Apr 2015 (Tuesday) 05:33
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NEW !!! Mitakon Speedmaster 85mm f/1.2

 
ZoneV
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Apr 27, 2015 02:40 |  #16

LonelyBoy wrote in post #17531270 (external link)
That sort of implies that going above f/2 is a lot of money for not a lot of benefit. Hrm.

Yes, you get less than you expect.
This is the reason why I love my old EOS 5D, with microlenses that only loose 0.4 Exposure Values with a f/1.2 lens, and not 0.95 EV like the EOS 7D.
On the other side a f/1.2 lens is still faster and still with more blur than a f/1.4 lens on the same camera.
But probably a f/1.2 has less blur on a DSLR than on a old film camera.


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LonelyBoy
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Apr 27, 2015 07:02 |  #17

ZoneV wrote in post #17533954 (external link)
Yes, you get less than you expect.
This is the reason why I love my old EOS 5D, with microlenses that only loose 0.4 Exposure Values with a f/1.2 lens, and not 0.95 EV like the EOS 7D.
On the other side a f/1.2 lens is still faster and still with more blur than a f/1.4 lens on the same camera.
But probably a f/1.2 has less blur on a DSLR than on a old film camera.

I did notice the 5D3 wasn't listed. Looking at the shape of the chart, is it correct that I'd expect it to fare pretty well (with the other FF offerings, <.4EV @ 1/4)?


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ZoneV
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Apr 28, 2015 11:51 as a reply to  @ LonelyBoy's post |  #18

Yes, it seems possible - at least at f/4 = 1/4 :-)
But at f/1.4 likely too. But we do not know what the likely new / different microlenses do exactly.


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MBB89
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Apr 28, 2015 12:35 |  #19

Buying this seems insane when the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 can easily be found for $650 used and is dazzling.




  
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LonelyBoy
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Apr 28, 2015 15:32 |  #20

ZoneV wrote in post #17535892 (external link)
Yes, it seems possible - at least at f/4 = 1/4 :-)
But at f/1.4 likely too. But we do not know what the likely new / different microlenses do exactly.

Ah, typo - I meant "<.4EV @ 1.4". Usually I catch those.


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burb1972
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Apr 28, 2015 22:45 as a reply to  @ ZoneV's post |  #21

5d mark ii gets ev+Fstop =1.84 at f1.4 and ev+Fstop =1.85 at f1.2, so you get less light thru lens if its a f1.2? and then will it affect dof?
and do you add the ev + fstop so a f/1.4 plus ev change of .45 = a 1.85 lens?


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ZoneV
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Apr 29, 2015 02:32 |  #22

burb1972 wrote in post #17536645 (external link)
5d mark ii gets ev+Fstop =1.84 at f1.4 and ev+Fstop =1.85 at f1.2, so you get less light thru lens if its a f1.2? and then will it affect dof?
and do you add the ev + fstop so a f/1.4 plus ev change of .45 = a 1.85 lens?

5DII has @1.2 0.65 EV loss, @1.4 0.44 EV.
You could not add EF to f-stop: 1EV is the difference between a full f-stop, for example 1.4 and 2.0. Or a half / double exposure time.
So the f/1.26 lens will react like a ~f/1.59 lens, and the f/1.4 lens like ~ 1.68 lens (not exact calculated) from exposure - when those measurments are right.

The exposure difference will be internal adjusted.
Blur will be not as bad as exposure, cause there is no hard cut between accepted rays and not acceptetd, but a fall in quantum eficency. So there is some light from near aperture rim that results in electrons.
I think those microlenses act a bit like an apodizing filter.


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burb1972
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Apr 29, 2015 17:30 |  #23

so really there is almost no reason to get f1.2 lenses if you have a mark ii or mark iii 5d, except in the canon line because the good ones , the 50 1.2 and 85 1.2 dont really have a f1.4 counterpart? kinda funny because the thread is about the new mitakon 1.2. and the iii might be worse because of the higher resolution and smaller pixel pitch? And then the new cameras 6d ii and 5ds would be even worse due to even higher pixel pitch?


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gear list 5dc, tamron 19-35, tamron 28-75, 50mm 1.8 mark 1, 28-70 3.5 canon(x2), 100 f/2 canon, 70-300 usm is, helios 44-2, vpk lens put into a m42 cap attached to a bellows, 430 ex

  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Apr 29, 2015 18:11 |  #24

LonelyBoy wrote in post #17531270 (external link)
That sort of implies that going above f/2 is a lot of money for not a lot of benefit. Hrm.

There isn't an abrupt threshold where extra light can no longer be captured from lower f#s; you just get lower returns beyond a certain point depending upon the microlenses on the sensor. IOW, you might get only 2/3 stops more light for a full stop more aperture.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Apr 29, 2015 18:17 |  #25

burb1972 wrote in post #17537633 (external link)
so really there is almost no reason to get f1.2 lenses if you have a mark ii or mark iii 5d, except in the canon line because the good ones , the 50 1.2 and 85 1.2 dont really have a f1.4 counterpart? kinda funny because the thread is about the new mitakon 1.2. and the iii might be worse because of the higher resolution and smaller pixel pitch? And then the new cameras 6d ii and 5ds would be even worse due to even higher pixel pitch?

What is being overlooked here is that the 5D has a much less efficient sensor, so the later 5D2 and 5D3 will collect more light, anyway. For something like the Sony A7s, however, the benefit at f/1.2 could be significant.




  
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burb1972
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Post edited over 4 years ago by burb1972.
     
Apr 29, 2015 18:18 |  #26

it does seem though on the mark ii 5d, that the semi abrupt stop is at f1.4 because it is has roughly the same values as a f1.2 lens after the ev adjustment. it would be interesting if they had tested the ev loss at f2.


mike parker
gear list 5dc, tamron 19-35, tamron 28-75, 50mm 1.8 mark 1, 28-70 3.5 canon(x2), 100 f/2 canon, 70-300 usm is, helios 44-2, vpk lens put into a m42 cap attached to a bellows, 430 ex

  
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LonelyBoy
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Apr 29, 2015 18:50 |  #27

John Sheehy wrote in post #17537679 (external link)
There isn't an abrupt threshold where extra light can no longer be captured from lower f#s; you just get lower returns beyond a certain point depending upon the microlenses on the sensor. IOW, you might get only 2/3 stops more light for a full stop more aperture.

I did say "not a lot of" not "no". It just looked, to me, like going under f/2 was a point of diminishing returns.


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burb1972
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Post edited over 4 years ago by burb1972.
     
Apr 29, 2015 19:15 as a reply to  @ John Sheehy's post |  #28

what has been done to make the sensor more efficient on the mark ii and iii vs the classic?


mike parker
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John ­ Sheehy
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Apr 29, 2015 19:23 |  #29

burb1972 wrote in post #17537687 (external link)
it does seem though on the mark ii 5d, that the semi abrupt stop is at f1.4 because it is has roughly the same values as a f1.2 lens after the ev adjustment. it would be interesting if they had tested the ev loss at f2.

I tested the 5D2 and the 7D down to f/1.4 (I don't have any faster lenses). The 7D started losing light below f/2.8, and the 5D2 started losing light below f/2. Neither had an abrupt loss at any point down to f/1.4.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Apr 29, 2015 19:26 |  #30

burb1972 wrote in post #17537749 (external link)
what has been done to make the sensor more efficient on the mark ii and iii vs the classic?

Changes in microlenses, color filters, maybe the sensor itself to a small degree.




  
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NEW !!! Mitakon Speedmaster 85mm f/1.2
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