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Thread started 29 Apr 2015 (Wednesday) 06:51
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Just sold my mac.....

 
urbanfreestyle
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May 10, 2015 19:13 as a reply to  @ post 17551134 |  #31

I'm not worried too much about the power consumption, to be honest i think i may even save money having a PC that is on for a few hours rather than a laptop that is on pretty much constantly! lol


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May 11, 2015 05:08 |  #32

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17551134 (external link)
There have been so many studies done to show how insignificant the energy savings are it's ridiculous. On average you'd save maybe $10 a year on your electric bill yearly in the US.

Also, AMD now has "E" versions of several of their CPUs which only draw 95w if you're worried about that sort of thing, which imo, it's bordering on ridiculous to be worried about that.

I think it's rather disrespectful to call thinking about energy savings ridiculous. If it's $10 a year, that means you'd get a discount of $30 (since you'd normally keep a processor for at least 3 years). That money could be spent on something else (e.g. to partially pay for another memory module). Also, lower power consumption generally means less heat. Less heat means more silent cooling solutions. Heat also affects overclocking ability. For some people this matters, for others it doesn't.

I managed to cool my 65W E2160 (server PC) passively with a large heat sink on it and only 1 silent, low RPM case fan close to it. I couldn't have managed this with a 125W processor (and probably even not with a 95W processor). So yes, if it were me I would definitely look into those "E" versions you told about.

A 750W PSU is not overkill if you look at what he said. He plans on adding at least one extra graphics card in the future.


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May 11, 2015 10:15 |  #33

jocau wrote in post #17551606 (external link)
I think it's rather disrespectful to call thinking about energy savings ridiculous. If it's $10 a year, that means you'd get a discount of $30 (since you'd normally keep a processor for at least 3 years). That money could be spent on something else (e.g. to partially pay for another memory module). Also, lower power consumption generally means less heat. Less heat means more silent cooling solutions. Heat also affects overclocking ability. For some people this matters, for others it doesn't.

I managed to cool my 65W E2160 (server PC) passively with a large heatsink on it and only 1 silent, low RPM case fan close to it. I couldn't have managed this with a 125W processor (and probably even not with a 95W processor). So yes, if it were me I would definitely look into those "E" versions you told about.

A 750W PSU is not overkill if you look at what he said. He plans on adding at least one extra graphics card in the future.

I don't think I said anything that should be taken as disrespect, but I apologize if it came off that way.

My point is that I'd much rather save money up front than a tiny (insignificant imo) amount over 3 years.

Also, the cooling is just not true either. I have a 4 year old 1090T (phenom ii X6) in my machine with a Cooler Master heat sink with 1 120mm Noctural fan on it and I have it running at 3.6ghz very stable and very quiet. I could likely push it further if I needed to by adjusting the voltage, but I really don't need to so I've only changed the multiplier.

Also, needing the power would again fully depend on which cards he was running. 600w will power most SLI setups just fine.


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May 11, 2015 10:57 |  #34

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17551893 (external link)
I don't think I said anything that should be taken as disrespect, but I apologize if it came off that way.

My point is that I'd much rather save money up front than a tiny (insignificant imo) amount over 3 years.

Also, the cooling is just not true either. I have a 4 year old 1090T (phenom ii X6) in my machine with a Cooler Master heat sink with 1 120mm Noctural fan on it and I have it running at 3.6ghz very stable and very quiet. I could likely push it further if I needed to by adjusting the voltage, but I really don't need to so I've only changed the multiplier.

Also, needing the power would again fully depend on which cards he was running. 600w will power most SLI setups just fine.

I guess I interpreted it the wrong way then. No harm done.

Well, that's exactly what I meant. A heat sink with a fan attached to it, isn't passive CPU cooling. My server PC literally only has 2 silent 140mm case fans running at 7V (and sometimes I switch them to 5V). One intake (front, bottom), one exhaust (back, top). The PSU fan isn't spinning since the PSU is on hybrid mode all the time because of the low power consumption of the system. There's no fan attached to my large CPU heat sink. Also onboard graphics. So the only form of airflow comes from the 2 silent 140mm case fans.

When I say "heat affects overclocking ability" I of course mean heavy overclocking. Pushing it to the limit (adjusting the CPU core voltage).

urbanfreestyle wrote in post #17550808 (external link)
so i have re-gigged my build now, i know some of it is overkill however i will be using the GPU for cypher and F@H so will be the more the merrier, I have changed my CPU choice to a 8350 Black Edtn, 270X GPU, a good quality 80 Platinum 750w PSU and 8gb ram. I know people are going to say the psu is overkill however i am speccing the machine for futureproofing and with the intent to add additional graphics cards, more ram and further hdds.

Since he mentions "the intent to add additional graphics cards" and not "the intent to add an additional graphics card", I'm assuming Eyefinity is still an option. Also, if he decides to replace the R9 270X by two power-hungry graphics cards, 600W isn't going to be enough.

That being said though, if you don't want to overclock your CPU (or overclock it very mildly), the stock cooler will do just fine (at least for Intel, I'm guessing it's the same story for AMD) and save you some money.


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May 11, 2015 11:34 |  #35

They still sell the 8350?

I wouldn't have recommended the AMD because it is 3 years old, but intel doesn't have anything with multiple cores in the lower price ranges. The I3 and G cpus are great budget cpus for gaming, but top out at 2 cores.

Looks like you would need to jump all the way to $190-200 to get the i5 4590. I bet the new Broadwell i5 desktop cpus will be pricy, but all that power for just 65W!




  
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May 11, 2015 13:04 |  #36

I'm seeing numbers like $26/year for the average home user on the i5-4690 vs $52/year for 8350. Granted, this is just a few dollars per month but might be worth factoring in to the overall cost.

The 8350 does not have a GPU, so an add-on graphics card of some sort is a must. The I5 (and I7) have decent graphics support built-in, but you still will want an add-on GPU if you play games at 1080p or want to take advantage of Ps or Lr6's GPU acceleration.

The i5 has considerably better single-core performance than the 8350. But the 8350 has eight cores vs the i5's four. For multi-threaded applications this would make the 8350 slightly faster for less money. If not using GPU acceleration in Ps/Lr this could make a difference, but with GPU acceleration I'm seeing very little main CPU utilization with these applications. Most other apps will run slower on AMD than Intel. Web browsing might be improved because plug-ins could run on separate cores. But I would favor the Intel processors in a system that has a decent add-on GPU.

I've built both AMD and Intel systems. The systems I've built with Intel have lasted longer. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the CPU, but rather with the motherboards that I've used that support AMD. My last AMD system was built 7 years ago so I can't give you any current advice on MB brands.

Some people just don't like Intel, and some just don't like AMD. Objectively, I think you need to decide whether the i5's better single-core performance -- and most applications are not multi-threaded -- is more valuable than the AMD's lower price.


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May 11, 2015 13:30 |  #37

jocau wrote in post #17551947 (external link)
I guess I interpreted it the wrong way then. No harm done.

Well, that's exactly what I meant. A heat sink with a fan attached to it, isn't passive CPU cooling. My server PC literally only has 2 silent 140mm case fans running at 7V (and sometimes I switch them to 5V). One intake (front, bottom), one exhaust (back, top). The PSU fan isn't spinning since the PSU is on hybrid mode all the time because of the low power consumption of the system. There's no fan attached to my large CPU heat sink. Also onboard graphics. So the only form of airflow comes from the 2 silent 140mm case fans.

When I say "heat affects overclocking ability" I of course mean heavy overclocking. Pushing it to the limit (adjusting the CPU core voltage).

Since he mentions "the intent to add additional graphics cards" and not "the intent to add an additional graphics card", I'm assuming Eyefinity is still an option. Also, if he decides to replace the R9 270X by two power-hungry graphics cards, 600W isn't going to be enough.

That being said though, if you don't want to overclock your CPU (or overclock it very mildly), the stock cooler will do just fine (at least for Intel, I'm guessing it's the same story for AMD) and save you some money.

In my mind, we're all friends here, I definitely wouldn't be out trying to offend you or anyone else ;)

And what you just described is exactly the same as what I'm running... actually yours is if anything more intense. My PC has 2 120mm fans, one at the back of the case as the exhaust, one directly on the CPU cooler, so in reality it's not any louder or resource consuming, just different. Also, my CPU temp is almost always below 45 degrees right now, meaning I could surly OC it more if I really desired to... I don't because to me it's not really worth the hassle for the minimal gains I'd get.

I can see your argument on running more than 2 cards, but if he's already factoring a 270x into his build I would advice him to just go with a better card out of the gate if anything, saving money on an AMD CPU would give him more headroom to do that. A GTX 970 or R9 290X would "future" proof the machine for a few years without needing to run multiple GPU's imo.

thefranklin wrote in post #17552002 (external link)
They still sell the 8350?

I wouldn't have recommended the AMD because it is 3 years old, but intel doesn't have anything with multiple cores in the lower price ranges. The I3 and G cpus are great budget cpus for gaming, but top out at 2 cores.

Looks like you would need to jump all the way to $190-200 to get the i5 4590. I bet the new Broadwell i5 desktop cpus will be pricy, but all that power for just 65W!

The 8350 might be old, but CPU tech on AMD's side hasn't gone that much further since it came out. The newer AMD chips have higher factory clocks and allow for a bit more room in overclocking, but the 8350's have gotten almost silly cheap for what they offer making them an awesome choice imo.

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17552113 (external link)
I'm seeing numbers like $26/year for the average home user on the i5-4690 vs $52/year for 8350. Granted, this is just a few dollars per month but might be worth factoring in to the overall cost.

The 8350 does not have a GPU, so an add-on graphics card of some sort is a must. The I5 (and I7) have decent graphics support built-in, but you still will want an add-on GPU if you play games at 1080p or want to take advantage of Ps or Lr6's GPU acceleration.

The i5 has considerably better single-core performance than the 8350. But the 8350 has eight cores vs the i5's four. For multi-threaded applications this would make the 8350 slightly faster for less money. If not using GPU acceleration in Ps/Lr this could make a difference, but with GPU acceleration I'm seeing very little main CPU utilization with these applications. Most other apps will run slower on AMD than Intel. Web browsing might be improved because plug-ins could run on separate cores. But I would favor the Intel processors in a system that has a decent add-on GPU.

I've built both AMD and Intel systems. The systems I've built with Intel have lasted longer. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the CPU, but rather with the motherboards that I've used that support AMD. My last AMD system was built 7 years ago so I can't give you any current advice on MB brands.

Some people just don't like Intel, and some just don't like AMD. Objectively, I think you need to decide whether the i5's better single-core performance -- and most applications are not multi-threaded -- is more valuable than the AMD's lower price.

He already factored an r9 270x into his build, so the onboard graphics are a non-issue. If I were to go the on-board graphics route though I would honestly go AMD there too because the new A-10 Kevari systems from AMD are pretty darn great especially when you consider their price point.

In real world use I honestly think both companies offerings are as near as makes no difference, the biggest difference being the AMD's are usually significantly cheaper, hence, that's where my money would go. The only reason I'd go Intel would be if I found a great deal on one or I really needed the maximum performance for gaming or some other application, which even there it's only a real advantage if you're doing 4k and/or multiple monitors.


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May 11, 2015 14:35 as a reply to  @ bumpintheroad's post |  #38

I think the other benefit of the AMD chip would be when i am running multiple VMs on the machine. I believe (as i can on my macbook currently) i can allocate cores to a particular VM.


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May 11, 2015 15:51 |  #39

urbanfreestyle wrote in post #17552240 (external link)
I think the other benefit of the AMD chip would be when i am running multiple VMs on the machine. I believe (as i can on my macbook currently) i can allocate cores to a particular VM.

The question is why would you want to run multiple VM's on a Windows box, unless it is strictly for dealing with unknown or known unsecure applications? I understand that on a Mac you might do this to run Windows programs. But running OS/X in a VM on non-Apple hardware is both a PITA and prohibited by Apple's EULA.

Windows itself does a fine job of managing multiple applications and you don't have to deal with the performance and resource overhead of the hypervisor.

But yes, typically you can assign a VM instance to a particular core.


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May 11, 2015 15:53 |  #40

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17552346 (external link)
The question is why would you want to run multiple VM's on a Windows box, unless it is strictly for dealing with unknown or known unsecure applications? I understand that on a Mac you might do this to run Windows programs. But running OS/X in a VM on non-Apple hardware is both a PITA and prohibited by Apple's EULA.

Windows itself does a fine job of managing multiple applications and you don't have to deal with the performance and resource overhead of the hypervisor.

But yes, typically you can assign a VM instance to a particular core.

I use VirtualBox mainly for testing and experimentation. It keeps me from needing a room full of computers, or at least a stack of hard drives in slide-out trays. Need to test some interaction between Server 08 R2 and Win8.1? Just launch a couple of clones, mess with them, and blow them away when done.




  
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May 11, 2015 17:11 as a reply to  @ mike_d's post |  #41

I will be running VMs of XP, Vista, 7, 8.1 and 10, along with server 2k3, 2k8 and 2012 and finally Kali. All used for extended learning in relation to my job and pentesting.


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