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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 06 Jun 2015 (Saturday) 18:10
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Brand new Canon 70D - Date/Time already set

 
GeoKras1989
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Jun 07, 2015 07:14 |  #16
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saea501 wrote in post #17587219 (external link)
I find this absolutely laughable. Do you really believe that? You're right they don't care. They don't care because if the packaging and product are in decent shape it just goes right back into the sale chain. I can't count how many times I have picked up a product on the shelf at many large retail chains that has clearly been opened and not properly repackaged or, in fact, has some of the original packaging missing. Or worse, has some of the parts missing. You are kidding yourself if you truly believe all returns get shipped back to the manufacturer.

You mention Helen Oster. She is in customer service for Adorama which is a much smaller retailer as compared to Best Buy and I believe is still family owned. That is a company that does things the right way and still believes in honest dealing and taking care of the people that spend money with them.

It doesn't surprise me a tiny little bit that the OP got a returned camera from Best Buy. That is one of the many reasons I haven't set foot in a Best Buy for probably 10 years.

Really? You can't count the times? That's why you won't patronize Best Buy? If everyone is doing this, then you have nowhere to shop. Now THAT sounds a bit far-fetched. You claim to have first hand knowledge of retailers routinely breaking the law. How many times have you contacted your state's Consumer Protection Division or Attorney General? This is so thin I can see through it from corn-country Indiana.

There are plenty of valid reasons to not shop at Best Buy. Incompetent, untrained, unskilled (wrt products) staff, not to mention the Geek Squad which is worse than worthless (no help AND you have to pay for it). The service department is total and complete joke. They hire real Geeks who can't tell a left-handed screwdriver from a board stretcher, then turn them loose on unwary customer's merchandise. BB has a huge reputation as a discount/warehouse/big​-box giant with zero customer service ability. The ONLY reason I shop there is that I can take something back within 14 days for no reason at all.


WARNING: I often dispense advice in fields I know little about!

  
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don1163
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Jun 07, 2015 07:17 |  #17

Personally I would return it and ask for another one.....if you are paying good money for a new camera then you expect a new camera...
Maybe it has already been registered with canon and someone has claimed cash back on it..


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saea501
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Jun 07, 2015 07:46 |  #18

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17587223 (external link)
Really? You can't count the times? That's why you won't patronize Best Buy? If everyone is doing this, then you have nowhere to shop. Now THAT sounds a bit far-fetched. You claim to have first hand knowledge of retailers routinely breaking the law. How many times have you contacted your state's Consumer Protection Division or Attorney General? This is so thin I can see through it from corn-country Indiana.

There are plenty of valid reasons to not shop at Best Buy. Incompetent, untrained, unskilled (wrt products) staff, not to mention the Geek Squad which is worse than worthless (no help AND you have to pay for it). The service department is total and complete joke. They hire real Geeks who can't tell a left-handed screwdriver from a board stretcher, then turn them loose on unwary customer's merchandise. BB has a huge reputation as a discount/warehouse/big​-box giant with zero customer service ability. The ONLY reason I shop there is that I can take something back within 14 days for no reason at all.

Good gravy, man......come into the real world.

I'll have nowhere to shop? Really? Worst Buy is the only place to buy things? Contact the Consumer Protection Division? Heck no....I just don't go there.

You're living in a dream world if you truly believe the things you're writing.

You can shop where ever you want my friend. This is still a semi free country.


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HelenOster
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Jun 07, 2015 08:30 |  #19

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17587115 (external link)
.......I'd be almost certain a large retailer like Best Buy would never do that.......

No comment.......

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17587115 (external link)
Helen Oster is well-respected around here,

thank you

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17587115 (external link)
and represents a retailer. Perhaps she will chime in.

Sometimes customers order items eg as a gift - for somebody who already has it, or it is so completely the wrong item that it is returned to us - and it is 100% clear that it has not been opened at all.

In addition, frequently customers place orders for a new release at 2, 3 or more retailers; when one is shipped they forget to cancel the other open orders. Again, if we can be 100% certain that any such returns have not been tampered with in any way, I would think they would not necessarily be viewed as 'used'.

Returns that come back within our 30-day returns period because they are faulty, go directly back to the vendor.
Returns that come back within the 30 days because the customer finds it unsuitable for their use may either be returned to the vendor for refurbishing, sold by us as open box or used in-store as demo models.

However, there is one possible explanation as to how customers may receive a previously sold and clearly used item, as new, from a reputable retailer.
The manufacturers and distributors, who supply to Adorama, and of course, other retailers, do allow us to return equipment as new, because of over-stocks, exchanges etc. This can be a particular issue after the Christmas holiday when we all need to balance out our inventories.

Even if we at Adorama are completely thorough when packaging up used items for return, there is no doubt that less scrupulous retailers could well be receiving returns, trusting the customer's explanation that they never opened the box - packaging them up for return to the manufacturer or distributor. These items then form part of the inventory for sending out to other retailers.

We can't inspect the contents of every package received into the warehouse. If the manufacturer doesn't check the equipment before sending it back out, from the customer's perspective it is us who looks bad, even though it may well have not been our fault.

At Adorama we do have liberal return policies and there is no doubt that on occasion this is taken advantage of - although this does not exempt us from more closely checking any and all returns, some retailers don't.

The problem is that we are all relying upon humans to carry out the required procedures at every point in the transaction, which can, and does, result in mistakes at any place along the line.



  
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Nick5
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Jun 07, 2015 08:32 |  #20

Let's look at the industry we are in. At Camera store for instance, does Canon, Nikon, Sony and all the other manufacturers give demo units for free to the retailer?
I can look at a lens off the shelf, try it on my camera and decide if it meets my needs. If I decide not to buy it, do you really think the retailer should send it back, sell it as a discount because it was opened and I touched and used it for a few minutes. No it is repacked in its original packaging. The Margins are so low, you feel as though that lens is now depreciated and the price should reflect?
It is cost prohibitive for a store to remain open. The reason we have three local Mom and Pop stores in our area is that they do inventory product for us to look at, get a feel for the product and then decide which is right for our needs. That is why I buy local and support them and their local economies.
Try looking for a new car and taking one for a test drive? Does that new car now become a used car?


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Acip
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Jun 07, 2015 09:37 |  #21

The paperwork was sealed in plastic, a warranty card was included, and the camera and lens were wrapped in bubble-wrap. Packaging was nice and neat. Camera works fine after a half day of using it.

However, sensor had some dust and the date/time was already set. I checked the shutter count from http://eoscount.com/ (external link) and it's at 514. I took maybe 60 shots.

It works fine so far but I can't help thinking about the reason why the "previous owner" returned it.


Gear: Canon 70D, 18-135mm, 100-400mm L II. C&C welcomed and appreciated.

  
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FarmerTed1971
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Jun 07, 2015 09:41 |  #22

Call retailer and ask for a discount? I know I wouldn't be happy with such a purchase. Sounds like a refurb.


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Colin ­ Glover
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Jun 07, 2015 09:52 |  #23

It was on this board over a year ago that someone had been sold a return by BB that had fingerprints on the VF and over 70 shutter actuations. Don't take this as 100% but Aa staff member admitted they test returns and if they can find no fault it's sold as new.


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Acip
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Jun 07, 2015 16:27 |  #24

I returned the camera to BestBuy and got another one. I had to set the date/time on the new one, which is a good sign. But the shutter count is 24. I would have expected the shutter count on a brand new device to be 0, but maybe it's 24 due to quality assurance testing at the factory.

I think I'll keep this one.

Thanks everyone for the insight and comments. Looking forward to getting back into photography.


Gear: Canon 70D, 18-135mm, 100-400mm L II. C&C welcomed and appreciated.

  
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Colin ­ Glover
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Jun 07, 2015 19:33 as a reply to  @ Acip's post |  #25

Return it. It should be 0. As I said, BB have an unwritten policy of selling display stock as new. You want one with 0 clicks on it. Open the box in store, and reject any that have clicks in them.


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Jun 07, 2015 19:57 |  #26

There is one manufacturing reason which might account for small variations - that is Quality Assurance. Most manufacturers perform intermittent demonstrative testing to maintain assurance of high quality of finished goods.

The policy concerning disposition of QA samples might vary with company - and the testing frequency of something so established as Date/Time might be very small ... like maybe one unit per month.

I don't know ... just saying.


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Jun 07, 2015 20:26 |  #27

Colin Glover wrote in post #17588012 (external link)
Return it. It should be 0. As I said, BB have an unwritten policy of selling display stock as new. You want one with 0 clicks on it. Open the box in store, and reject any that have clicks in them.

I don't know if a "new" camera should be zero, but the philosophy here is garbage...if you are happy with it, keep it. Just my two cents.




  
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MalVeauX
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Jun 07, 2015 20:35 |  #28

Acip wrote in post #17587783 (external link)
I think I'll keep this one.

Thanks everyone for the insight and comments. Looking forward to getting back into photography.

I wouldn't worry about 24 shots in the shutter count. If it's clean and in working order, and seems new enough, then I'd just roll with it. You have warranty if anything is really wrong with it early on. Otherwise, it'll be fine for a long time unless you just destroy it or happen to have comet hitting Earth kind of luck just outside of the warranty date.

Go shoot and post images!

Very best,


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jhartley
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Jun 08, 2015 06:15 |  #29

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17587115 (external link)
Not weird. Illegal. Once an item has been opened/used by the purchaser it is no longer 'new', in any legal sense of the word. Your answer also implies that Best Buy has the resources to thoroughly test, and then repackage a multi-piece package like a dSLR. They do not. Every item inside a new, boxed camera is individually wrapped, and most of them are sealed. Best Buy has no reason to dink with such shenanigans, especially considering they can just send it back to the manufacturer for credit.

I purchased a 60D from Best Buy. It had dust in the viewfinder. I returned it. They accepted it for full refund and never even opened the box. Why? Because they don't care; it is going back to the MFR, anyway. Selling used items as new may well happen. I'd be almost certain a large retailer like Best Buy would never do that. It certainly isn't policy. What do they have to gain? Helen Oster is well-respected around here, and represents a retailer. Perhaps she will chime in.

Clearly you have never worked in retail or distribution of any kind. Many manufactures don't allow returns of any kind, secondly I can't think of a retailer large or small that doesn't take returned items that appear like new and put them back on their shelves and sell them as new. I can tell you when I worked for a distributor/ retailer for 3 years that Canon, Nikon and a number of other larger electronics and computer manufactures do not allow returns for credits of any kind defective or not. If an item was returned to us from one of those manufactures that didn't allow returns we would sell it as new if it was able to be placed back into the original packaging and all contents were there and it appeared as new. If it wasn't then it was sold as an open box item for a discount. The discount depended on the condition and what might be missing. Same thing happened when I worked retail also.
Go to ANY retailer hang out by their returns counter watch things get returned watch the employee open the item to inspect it if it appears to of been opened and watch them carefully place it back into the packaging, then wait around long enough and they will call someone from the departments that have items at the return desk and they will place the items right back in stock.
I can tell you that your experience at Best buy is not their policy at all. They are required to inspect the item and are required to confirm what the customer has claimed. I used to be in management for Best Buy. I used to be in management at other retailers too, in total of 7 years of retail/retail management. I've now been in management in warehouses for over 12 years. My wife works in the returns warehouse for the same company as me currently and she knows quite well what you claim is how it works is very inaccurate.


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jhartley
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Jun 08, 2015 06:27 |  #30

bubbygator wrote in post #17588027 (external link)
There is one manufacturing reason which might account for small variations - that is Quality Assurance. Most manufacturers perform intermittent demonstrative testing to maintain assurance of high quality of finished goods.

The policy concerning disposition of QA samples might vary with company - and the testing frequency of something so established as Date/Time might be very small ... like maybe one unit per month.

I don't know ... just saying.

All manufactures of any kind of product tests a set number of items based on statistics for the given product to determine how many should be tested to ensure there's not a major problem in the manufacturing process.


70D 18-135 STM, 10-22mm, 24mm STM, 40mm STM, 55-250 STM, 270EX II

  
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Brand new Canon 70D - Date/Time already set
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