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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 14 Jun 2015 (Sunday) 23:08
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Advice on upgrade to shoot soccer

 
MDinMA
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Jun 14, 2015 23:08 |  #1

I'm a complete amateur that's been getting by with an old Rebel XSi and a 70-200 F/4L. Now that my kids are getting older they've transitioned to a full size field and the 70-200 just can't cover all that space. I'm looking to upgrade both the body and the lens.

I'm leaning towards the 7D for the 8 fps speed. My youngest is a keeper so I'd like to catch his saves, but things can happen pretty quickly. I need to keep the body under $1000. I'm not opposed to a pre-owned body if it makes sense.

I have no idea what to do about the lens. I'd like a little more reach, but I can't spend more than $1500-$1800.

I guess I could stretch my total budget to $3000 but I'd prefer to stay under that.

Any help would be great.




  
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werds
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Jun 15, 2015 08:30 |  #2

MDinMA wrote in post #17597301 (external link)
I'm a complete amateur that's been getting by with an old Rebel XSi and a 70-200 F/4L. Now that my kids are getting older they've transitioned to a full size field and the 70-200 just can't cover all that space. I'm looking to upgrade both the body and the lens.

I'm leaning towards the 7D for the 8 fps speed. My youngest is a keeper so I'd like to catch his saves, but things can happen pretty quickly. I need to keep the body under $1000. I'm not opposed to a pre-owned body if it makes sense.

I have no idea what to do about the lens. I'd like a little more reach, but I can't spend more than $1500-$1800.

I guess I could stretch my total budget to $3000 but I'd prefer to stay under that.

Any help would be great.

Canon 70D will get you 7FPS and is a great camera, used they can be had for around $600ish (and brand new $950).
Brand new from B&H you could get a Canon 100-400 IS for $1500 or the newer Canon 100-400 IS II for $2200.

Most of those combos will arrive you below your 3K mark. And the 70D is no slouch!


Gear: Nikon D750, Nikon D7200, Sigma 17-50 2.8 OS, Sigma 50-150 2.8 OS HSM EX , Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR1, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, Tamron 70-200 2.8 VC, Tamron 28-300mm Di VC PZD, Tamron 16-300mm VC PZD, Tamron 150-600 VC, Nikon AF-S 50mm 1.8, Nikon SB-900
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gonzogolf
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Jun 15, 2015 08:41 |  #3

The canon 100-400L original version can be found used for around $1000. I would recommend it although tamron and sigma have lenses in that class.




  
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tmalone893
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Jun 15, 2015 08:42 |  #4

As mentioned , I would look at the 7D or the 70D for the body. As far as the lens goes, the 100-400 is great for day games but if the light is bad you will struggle with that lens. Look at a used Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 OS. It's the model right below the sport with the same optics. A used one can be found for around $1800. This would put you well within your budget.


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Craign
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Jun 15, 2015 09:10 |  #5

"Any help would be great." This might be marginal for even "any help."

1. The XSi was a great camera when introduced. Newer bodies will take you to a different world, especially with higher ISO that might be needed in less than ideal light. More FPS will take you to a different world. I went from a 50D (6 fps) to a 7D Mark II (10 fps) and could not believe what I had been missing.

2. Will your games be at night under lights? If so, you will need a fast lens.

3. Since you want something longer than 200mm, be aware fast and long can be outrageously expensive. You might need to compromise somewhere.

4. I love my 70-300mm L for daytime soccer. It is okay for about half the field. I use my 70-200mm f/2.8 for night games and live with whatever I can get. A 100-400mm lens is often recommended for daytime soccer.

5. New body, three to consider:
7D An older model introduced fall of 2009, available new for $749.00

70D Introduced in 2013 It is a really good camera that will shoot 7 fps, available new for $949.00 Friends love theirs.

7D Mark II introduced fall of 2014 shoots 10 fps, available new for $1,349.99 It is a serious camera with many menu settings allowing the owner to tweak the performance or end up with a real mess. It has a serious learning curve to take advantage of all the features. High ISO quality is good and crop ability is amazing (at least compared to earlier prosumer cameras.)

Maximum budget of $3,000
7D Mark II for $1349.00 and Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L (non IS) for $1,349.00 for day and night games. Total = $ 2,698.00
or 7D Mark II plus Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM for $1,499.00 for day games. Total = $2,848.00

The 70D would save $400.00 I would not get a 7D.


Canon 7D Mark II w/Canon BG-E16 Battery Grip; Canon EOS 50D w/Canon Battery Grip; Canon SL1; Tokina 12mm - 24mm f/4 PRO DX II; Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS; Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS; Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS; Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM; Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS; Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM; Canon Extender EF 1.4x II; Canon Extender EF 2x II; Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash
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MDinMA
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Jun 15, 2015 13:54 |  #6

Craign wrote in post #17597653 (external link)
The 70D would save $400.00 I would not get a 7D.

Out of curiosity, after listing the 7D as one of 3 bodies to consider, why wouldn't you choose the 7D yourself?

I don't know if an articulated screen is something I'll need, or even miss if I've never had one. The WIFI seems interesting but I don't know if it will matter to me in the end.

Thanks for the reply.




  
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MDinMA
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Jun 15, 2015 14:32 |  #7

Craign wrote in post #17597653 (external link)
2. Will your games be at night under lights? If so, you will need a fast lens.

3. Since you want something longer than 200mm, be aware fast and long can be outrageously expensive. You might need to compromise somewhere.

4. I love my 70-300mm L for daytime soccer. It is okay for about half the field. I use my 70-200mm f/2.8 for night games and live with whatever I can get. A 100-400mm lens is often recommended for daytime soccer.

I think most of my games will be shot during daylight hours. Could I shoot indoor soccer with a 2.8? Perhaps my best bet would be a 70-200 2.8L with a teleconverter to increase my outdoor reach?




  
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Jun 15, 2015 14:34 |  #8

MDinMA wrote in post #17597301 (external link)
I'm a complete amateur that's been getting by with an old Rebel XSi and a 70-200 F/4L. Now that my kids are getting older they've transitioned to a full size field and the 70-200 just can't cover all that space. I'm looking to upgrade both the body and the lens.

I'm leaning towards the 7D for the 8 fps speed. My youngest is a keeper so I'd like to catch his saves, but things can happen pretty quickly. I need to keep the body under $1000. I'm not opposed to a pre-owned body if it makes sense.

I have no idea what to do about the lens. I'd like a little more reach, but I can't spend more than $1500-$1800.

I guess I could stretch my total budget to $3000 but I'd prefer to stay under that.

Any help would be great.

Here are photos I did of a girls varsity high school soccer game. (The first couple shots are actually from the earlier junior varsity game, and the next three are warm-up photos for the varsity game.)

http://grahamglover.ze​nfolio.com/p57692732 (external link)

My kit: 5DM3, Canon 100-400 Mk I (push/pull), MeFOTO Tripod in monopod configuration.

I shoot "Single shooting" and simply time my shots. I know some people are concerned with how many shots they can take in a second; I only want the one shot when things are happening. The 5DM3 is very good in low light. You're going to want to shoot at 1/500s at the slowest; 1/1000s is better. To get that, you're using ISO 12800 or higher. The push/pull of the original 100-400 is an advantage as you can zoom very quickly with it, though fully zoomed it isn't particularly fast (f/5.6). A monopod with this kit is almost essential, as after about 15 minutes you're going to get tired of holding it.

The price of the 5DM3 has dropped, so that's a Good Thing. I bought my 100-400 used from LensRentals as I've had very positive experience from them in the past. From a reputable dealer, a used lens can be a bargain.

I hope this helps!


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BlakeC
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Jun 15, 2015 14:43 |  #9

upgrade?

1- get them into "American Football!" - JK! ;-)a
2- I agree, go with the 70D
3- And I personally like my Sigma 70-200 2.8 (being a crop sensor, you will get the "reach" of something more like a 112mm-320mm)

This combo should be around $2500 depending on what you buy new vs used.

If you will be shooting in good light, you could even go with the canon 55-250 stm. It's very sharp and focuses pretty quick with the STM motor, especially if you aren't focusing from near to far too much.

The 70D + 55-250 would be more like $1500 new! AND MUCH lighter and smaller!

Also, get a good strap, the 70D+2.8 combo gets heavy.


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Jun 15, 2015 15:17 |  #10

MDinMA wrote in post #17597992 (external link)
I think most of my games will be shot during daylight hours. Could I shoot indoor soccer with a 2.8? Perhaps my best bet would be a 70-200 2.8L with a teleconverter to increase my outdoor reach?

I know nothing about indoor soccer. The 70-200mm f/2.8 is great for basketball.


Canon 7D Mark II w/Canon BG-E16 Battery Grip; Canon EOS 50D w/Canon Battery Grip; Canon SL1; Tokina 12mm - 24mm f/4 PRO DX II; Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS; Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS; Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS; Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM; Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS; Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM; Canon Extender EF 1.4x II; Canon Extender EF 2x II; Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash
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Craign
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Jun 15, 2015 15:22 |  #11

MDinMA wrote in post #17597962 (external link)
Out of curiosity, after listing the 7D as one of 3 bodies to consider, why wouldn't you choose the 7D yourself?

I don't know if an articulated screen is something I'll need, or even miss if I've never had one. The WIFI seems interesting but I don't know if it will matter to me in the end.

Thanks for the reply.

1. I didn't upgrade from my 50D to a 7D because I did not see enough difference.
2. A friend had a 7D for three years and never liked it. She now shoots a 1DX.
3. I can't recommend buying old technology. I think of a camera body as a computer and a lot has changed in the last 5 years.


Canon 7D Mark II w/Canon BG-E16 Battery Grip; Canon EOS 50D w/Canon Battery Grip; Canon SL1; Tokina 12mm - 24mm f/4 PRO DX II; Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS; Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS; Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS; Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM; Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS; Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM; Canon Extender EF 1.4x II; Canon Extender EF 2x II; Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash
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MDinMA
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Jun 15, 2015 16:04 |  #12

Craign wrote in post #17598060 (external link)
1. I didn't upgrade from my 50D to a 7D because I did not see enough difference.
2. A friend had a 7D for three years and never liked it. She now shoots a 1DX.
3. I can't recommend buying old technology. I think of a camera body as a computer and a lot has changed in the last 5 years.

Thanks, makes perfect sense when put in the context of old technology.




  
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MDinMA
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Jun 15, 2015 16:23 |  #13

Would you guys recommend a Canon 100-400 IS or would a 70-200 2.8 IS +1.4x or 2x extender be a better all around choice?




  
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Luxx
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Jun 15, 2015 16:44 |  #14

Ok. Kids soccer. It is a high percentage of what I do.
Started with xti and 70-300...could do outdoor daylight games
Then got 2ti. Could do outdoor and mild overcast
Then got 6d...amazing change and now could take photos at night under lights...though only with 2.8
But at night I used 70-200 and day used 100-400...this was great but still could not do night games. Then purchased a used 300 2.8 is for outdoor and used 135 2.0 for indoor and now am happy. I sometimes use my 70d or the 100-400 or the 1.4 extender. I also use a gimbal head.

In the end it took me years to get where I am. I'd like to have more fps but the iq of the 6d is so much better I usually use it even with the 1.4 instead of the 70d. For indoor I have no choice since it is so dark in kids games. The 100-400 is great but I always found myself even with the 6d being unable to take photos at night or eve in overcast conditions.

Indoor I have used the 85 1.2 (had sigma 85 1.4 which was terrible for me with the 6d). And mostly 135,

(Sorry for having the post half finished 12 hours ago but I was on a few planes)




  
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werds
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Jun 15, 2015 18:17 |  #15

MDinMA wrote in post #17598135 (external link)
Would you guys recommend a Canon 100-400 IS or would a 70-200 2.8 IS +1.4x or 2x extender be a better all around choice?

If the majority of your shots are outdoors in good light go with the 100-400 IS and a 70D - going used route will save you a pretty penny or three. Might even leave you room in the budget for a Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS or Tammy 70-200 2.8 VC to help cover those indoor games.

The 55-250 STM is a magnificent lens and I loved how sharp it was end to end, but as you mentioned that you felt you 70-200 was reach limited the 100-400 would provide the extra reach you desire and at a reasonably good price point used, leaving you enough room to pick up a low light zoom lens.

I do want to point out, once you go for the fast lenses (2.8) with reach, they get heavy VERY fast, and a monopod might be needed to some degree.


Gear: Nikon D750, Nikon D7200, Sigma 17-50 2.8 OS, Sigma 50-150 2.8 OS HSM EX , Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR1, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, Tamron 70-200 2.8 VC, Tamron 28-300mm Di VC PZD, Tamron 16-300mm VC PZD, Tamron 150-600 VC, Nikon AF-S 50mm 1.8, Nikon SB-900
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Advice on upgrade to shoot soccer
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