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Thread started 20 Jun 2015 (Saturday) 13:30
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How to handle feedback?

 
GeoKras1989
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Jun 20, 2015 13:30 |  #1
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I recently made a lens purchase through a POTN sale thread. Just to be upfront about everything, I have already left positive feedback. I have sold and purchased several items on POTN sale threads; this is not my first rodeo. It is the first time I did not get exactly what I was expecting.

The seller stated in the sale that the lens worked perfectly and was in great condition. I have tested the lens to my satisfaction on two bodies, a 60D and 6D. It does indeed work perfectly. It is also in great condition..., now.

My issue was the cosmetic condition of the lens when it arrived. Both front and rear elements were so dusty that I had to clean the lens before I dared mount it. The front element had some goo on it that took several liquid-cleanings to remove. The photos in the ad did not show the condition of the glass. Honestly, if they had, I would not have purchased this lens. In the end, I got it cleaned up just fine. There are no scratches or blemishes in either element, or their respective coatings.

There is minimal dust inside the lens, that will never affect a photo. I count 6 tiny specks of dust. The seller did not disclose the dust. My first guess is that there is no way he could have known it was there, due to the condition of the exterior elements. On top of that, most lenses get some dust in them eventually.

In the end, I got a good deal on a nice piece of glass with no issues. I am happy with that, and the transaction is finished. I did not like having to clean up a lens before I could use it. Should I just write it off to some folks have different standards? Should I mention it to the seller? Should I just ignore it?


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bumpintheroad
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Jun 20, 2015 14:28 |  #2

Is it possible that something in the packaging transferred to the lens?

I would be a bit put-off if a lens arrived filthy. But not enough to leave negative feedback.


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pat.kane
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Jun 20, 2015 14:37 |  #3

It is worth PMing the seller and providing them the feedback. I've both provided and received input from other transactions and it raises everyone's awareness as to what should probably be disclosed.


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mpix345
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Jun 20, 2015 14:55 |  #4

pat.kane wrote in post #17604599 (external link)
It is worth PMing the seller and providing them the feedback. I've both provided and received input from other transactions and it raises everyone's awareness as to what should probably be disclosed.

I agree. Let them know that you had an issue. Since there is still no real feedback system here you don't have to worry about posting a negative, though I wouldn't do that based on the OPs description anyway.


  
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Jun 20, 2015 15:38 |  #5

I would probably tell the story just as you have here. Any future buyer will be able to make their own judgement as to whether to proceed with the sale.

Your story does however make me feel a bit better about the specific questions I ask of sellers. I know that I am probably more particular about my gear and even if the description is "okay" I will get written confirmation of the condition. The last old MF lens I bought did not have photos of the item. I asked for either photos or a second confirmation that things were in order. On second inspection the seller noticed some oil on the aperture blades. The sellers honesty (and a discount) gave me the confidence to buy anyway.


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05Xrunner
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Jun 20, 2015 16:09 |  #6

Don't hold your breath. Years ago I bought a sigma 150 macro that was labeled mint. I got it and rear mount was broke and no way could happen in shipping cause of padded bags they are in and zero damage to box. Seller didn't insure but you are not allowed to leave negative feedback here. Stupidest thing ever

I will bet this entire thread vanishes soon


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GeoKras1989
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Jun 20, 2015 16:49 |  #7
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Thanks for the help, all. I will likely contact the seller, tomorrow. I don't want to say anything I don't really mean. And it is true that I am satisfied with my purchase.

I don't feel like the seller intentionally deceived me. The lens isn't broken. It cleaned up fine. I think I should have asked for photos of the front and rear elements. Perhaps in the future. Buyer, beware y'know!

BTW, I agree with the rule against leaving negative feedback. It would be impossible to manage the fallout. If you are happy with a transaction, say so. Word gets around. Negative feedback tends to get blown out of proportion. Witness the 7D and 7D2 AF systems on release. And the 'Sigma Lottery'.


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volfan1978
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Jun 21, 2015 08:21 |  #8

It's unfortunate and I have experienced the same many times myself. Every time I sell a lens, I make sure it's clean and carefully packaged (and always insured) so the buyer receives it as described.

I have purchased several lenses in the condition you describe and have had to spend time cleaning and getting rid of external dust that wasn't noticed in the photos or described in the listing. I haven't really said anything to those sellers unless there is an obvious scratch in the coating that wasn't disclosed and was hidden under the gunk. I usually just clean the other ones and conclude that my definition of 'mint,' 'excellent' and 'like new' are not the same as the seller's.

I have been successful in the past asking for a partial refund when a lens has an obvious issue, but it's normally pretty reasonable. Probably the same amount as the difference between how Adorama and B&H would rate E- to E+. In your case, I probably wouldn't do anything more than maybe mention to the seller that the lens wasn't quite as described and you had to spend a good amount of time cleaning it. More like a heads up for next time and hope they're receptive.




  
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mpix345
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Jun 21, 2015 09:51 |  #9

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17604673 (external link)
Thanks for the help, all. I will likely contact the seller, tomorrow. I don't want to say anything I don't really mean. And it is true that I am satisfied with my purchase.

I don't feel like the seller intentionally deceived me. The lens isn't broken. It cleaned up fine. I think I should have asked for photos of the front and rear elements. Perhaps in the future. Buyer, beware y'know!

BTW, I agree with the rule against leaving negative feedback. It would be impossible to manage the fallout. If you are happy with a transaction, say so. Word gets around. Negative feedback tends to get blown out of proportion. Witness the 7D and 7D2 AF systems on release. And the 'Sigma Lottery'.

Sadly that is Pekka's cop-out as well on negative feedback. Yet I look at FM and see an antiquated looking forum that allows a variety of feedback along with the opportunity for the recipient to respond to the feedback. I don't know that there has never been a conflict about it, but it certainly isn't an ongoing issue.


  
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05Xrunner
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Jun 21, 2015 10:07 |  #10

yea fredmiranda offers positive, neutral and negative feedback
Negative feedback is way more important then positive. So you know the jokers out there looking to get over on you.


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kit ­ lens
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Jul 25, 2015 15:11 |  #11

Bump for another vote for admins to readdress the feedback system. I suggest possibly a plug-in for the forums itself, which surely has to have something. I know vB does, but it appears when POTN did the latest changes a short time ago, they have dropped vB for this new version. At least I really hope it has the option for user feedback, if it can be considered.

I just recommended a friend to purchase a lens from a member. Communication was poor, and AFTER full payment was sent.....the seller started describing missing parts (that were listed as included in the ad). This is absolutely childish, and I wish there was a way to share with everyone else of the experience. Especially seeing he is in the classifieds here often.....


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RHChan84
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Jul 27, 2015 06:08 |  #12

Not being able to leave negative feedback makes me worry about buying here. I think I have bought and sold s handful and it was low priced items. I care more about negative feedback then positive. Just to see what happened.


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GeoKras1989
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Jul 27, 2015 06:52 as a reply to  @ RHChan84's post |  #13
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I like the negative feedback rule the way it is. Pekka most certainly got this one right. I check feedback for everyone I purchase from, here, E-bay, and CL. If someone has 20-30+ positive feedbacks, that is really good. Then again, I think most people are decent by nature. I went through my Talley phase for several years and bought a lot of stuff, just to play with it, then sell it. Just guessing, but I'm somewhere on the other side of 100 purchases and sales. Some of it was $20 film bodies. Some was $1,000+ lenses. I've never had an issue. Most individuals don't sell hundreds of cameras/lenses. If someone has sold enough items to get 10+ positive feedbacks, what more do you want?

Please don't forget that it is also more likely, in the anonymous internet age, for someone to leave a false negative review, than a false positive. And one or two negative reviews would ruin someone's opportunity to sell, justified or not. Pekka, please leave the feedback rules as they are.


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kit ­ lens
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Jul 27, 2015 11:11 |  #14

It's really tough to try and discuss a potential change on a forum this large, regardless. Especially if a module/plug-in like I mentioned is in the mix, and it obviously would cost money. But vB's "trader rating" is certainly a worthy tool IMO, obviously only available in the vB world.

And keep in mind that everyone has their own opinion and people break down a "bad" experience in different ways than one another. I for one think the feedback system is truly flawed, since no negative can be left. I don't care if you've sold 30 items with positive feedback, what is important is that your last 4 transactions you blatantly lied and sold faulty/stolen equipment to me......and I can't flag other forum members to see that. So I do my research in the "positive feedback" post and see you have 30 positive notes, but don't see the most recent 4 were you decided to use your positive feedback to screw other forum members.

Truly flawed. No other way around it......


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GeoKras1989
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Jul 27, 2015 11:24 |  #15
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kit lens wrote in post #17646166 (external link)
It's really tough to try and discuss a potential change on a forum this large, regardless. Especially if a module/plug-in like I mentioned is in the mix, and it obviously would cost money. But vB's "trader rating" is certainly a worthy tool IMO, obviously only available in the vB world.

And keep in mind that everyone has their own opinion and people break down a "bad" experience in different ways than one another. I for one think the feedback system is truly flawed, since no negative can be left. I don't care if you've sold 30 items with positive feedback, what is important is that your last 4 transactions you blatantly lied and sold faulty/stolen equipment to me......and I can't flag other forum members to see that. So I do my research in the "positive feedback" post and see you have 30 positive notes, but don't see the most recent 4 were you decided to use your positive feedback to screw other forum members.

Truly flawed. No other way around it......

Disagree. Read the negative feedback on Amazon.com. You'll often see stuff like this:

This lens is POS. It doesn't even fit my camera. The ad says it is for Canon camera. WRONG! (User bought a 55-250 for their 5Dc.)

or

It took 3 weeks to get my camera. What is wrong with the Post Office? (That is a camera rating?)

If Pekka allows negative feedback, someone has to police it. Who determines whether or not it is valid? I mailed a 135L to a buyer who lived 2,000 miles away. I made the mistake of sending it (USPS) Registered Mail. It took 3 weeks to arrive. Buyer could easily have posted negative feedback. How do I respond to that? Am I even allowed to respond. How about an ongoing exchange between seller and unhappy buyer? It is possible to complain and successfully resolve the issue, or not. You guys are opening a can of worms, here. For the majority of us for whom the current system works well, please stand down. How do I KNOW the current system works for the majority of users?

1.) I've made 20 to 30 successful transactions. Something is working properly.
2.) The system still gets used - often. If it didn't work, it would have died a lonely death a long time ago.

Leave it alone, please.


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How to handle feedback?
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