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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 25 Jun 2015 (Thursday) 11:53
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I'm gonna rant a bit

 
Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Jun 26, 2015 15:21 |  #16

Nathan wrote in post #17611582 (external link)
What's proper post processing technique and how do I obtain it? I've been self-taught for a while, but I definitely know there are people who edit far better than I do. I have considered signing up for "professional" classes on post-editing, but... ahem... didn't like their style?

There's another thread on here about Linkedin's assimilation of lynda.com. A recent post mentions that they are now offering a free 21-day trial.

Don't know if it coveres whatever app you're PPing with, but AFAIK there is no better learning place than lynda. You might get your needs met for free. Check it out.


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Jun 26, 2015 23:30 as a reply to  @ Picture North Carolina's post |  #17

I paid for a year's membership a little while back. At that time, I found a lot of videos showing me Photoshop that I already knew. I spent more time there learning Premiere and Flash, though. That said, they have really great learning resources... but they're not going to teach you style. They're more about technical skill.


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davesrose
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Jun 26, 2015 23:47 |  #18

chauncey wrote in post #17610307 (external link)
There are a fair number of good photographers that inhabit the internet...
tis indeed a shame that most never learned proper PP to elicit the beauty of the image.

LOL....PP is a new concept. If you're trying have nostalgia over traditional photography, the real art in photography was in the development!


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Jun 27, 2015 05:04 |  #19

Nathan wrote in post #17611952 (external link)
I found a lot of videos showing me Photoshop that I already knew.

The one thing I have always said about photoshop is to not buy books, DVDs, etc. Photoshop is probably the number one supported app on the internet. You may have to root around a bit once in a while, but you can always find anything in a book or DVD available on the net for free.


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Nathan
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Jun 27, 2015 06:18 as a reply to  @ Picture North Carolina's post |  #20

I've been working with Photoshop since Photoshop 5.0 back when I was trained on the job in college as a graphics designer. Self taught most of what I know and there are a lot more resources on youtube now than there were when I had a Lynda membership.


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
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chauncey
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Jun 27, 2015 06:54 |  #21

FWIW, I'm a one-time member of NAPP, quit because of politics, and have used PS for over ten years.
Had memberships with Lynda.com and kelby training, they helped early on...now YouTube fits my desires.


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Jun 27, 2015 08:01 |  #22

How about this: for getting started, books and/or Lynda.com, kelbytaining.con, it's worth it!! From then on, well,move on!!!


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Jun 27, 2015 08:41 |  #23

I've been using photoshop since version 2.5 in about 1993, if what you do with Photoshop is fairly narrow in scope, or if you just have extra time to surf YouTube ,you will probably find what you need there. If you want to find the best techique quickly Lynda.com is worth every penny. Btw I use the monthly subscription and usually pay for 3-4 months a year.

There is more than one way to do just about everything in Photoshop and a lot of the YouTube stuff I have seen shows questionable or incomplete instruction.

Lynda gives away a ton of content I short blog post style blurbs. Of course, as I said before, it depends on the scope of what you want to learn. And no, when I say scope I don't mean your individual skill level.


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Jun 27, 2015 09:04 |  #24

I have to say that for a begginer at least, I really feel that books are very useful. The big advantage that books have over the "internet" is a degree more reliability. To get a book published by a mainstream publisher of textbooks take a bit of work. The publisher is going to be concerned with their reputation, which usually means that as part of the publication process the work will have received a degree of peer review, I guess this will be more so for a new author compared to an established one, but even so there will have been a review process. The internet has no limits on publication, anyone can buy a domain name and some hosting, and publish anything they want. Actually you can even do it quite well totally for free if you want to. All of this means that I trust very little information on the web to be totally true and unbiased, anything that allows just anyone to update posts is essentially unreliable. Even places that many seem to quote as sources, such as Wikipedia are very poor. I have read many articles on areas that I have a degree of expertise in that are completely erroneous, although most articles on science and engineering seem to be reasonably OK as far as i can tell. The only places that I would rely on for information on the web are those associated with the traditional publishing industry, or other companies that have made a decent name for themselves as online providers, such as Lynda.com, who have a reputation to maintain, just as the traditional print providers did.

Now more on the subject of the OP, the one thing that always annoys me is the person who says that I do NOT need to post process my work, I always get it right in camera. This is not true now for digital images, and was never true for film work either. Actually with film you always have to process the film to get any sort of useable image. How that processing is carried out can make significant differences to the results that you will achieve. even with transparency film, changing the development conditions can have a significant effect on the result. As soon as you include producing a print you are adding a significant degree of post processing work, even for films that have been processed through a 1hr automated machine, as the machine systems will do a significant amount of adjustment to your image. Use a pro lab, that offered hand printing, or do the work in your own darkroom and the amount of processing applied to a film based image was significant.

With digital imaging every image is post processed, here though you have two basic options, decide on just what processing parameters you want to use in advance, set them into the camera and make your exposure. Change some of the parameters and there is a good chance that you would have to alter the exposure applied to suit the new processing. In Canon DSLRs the classic case in point would be changing the picture style. A photographer with real understanding will realise this, and if they want optimum control will shoot an image to give the optimum raw data file, that will suit the processing steps that they plan on using to get the image that they initially envisioned. I guess the classic example of this, which of course dates back well into the days of film is Ansel Adams and his Zone System. A system that requires understanding of not just how you will expose the film, but how you will develop the negative, as well as then go on to make the print. I guess one of the closest similarities that I can think of in the digital world is using ETTR. If you shoot ETTR and expose correctly for it, then the in camera processing will return a very poor image, most likely looking over exposed. Yet take that correctly exposed ETTR shot, and apply the correct processing to it, and you will end up with a much better image than can be pulled from a supposedly correctly exposed image. Do not try to do ETTR using Canon's software though, it is not designed for it really, and is unable to work well with the image data in the highlight areas. I do not like to think of it as highlight recovery, as you are actually working with image data that was recorded, just that the "standard" processing methods ignore it.

Of course the ability to make the most of the camera and other systems in producing an end result, an image, doesn't mean that the resulting image actually has any artistic merit. I have to admit that I am essentially self taught, and as such do not have the full understanding of the language of art that is used in such discussion amongst those with the requisite training. My training and education has been as an engineer, and that is the professional language that I speak. I unfortunately like a lot of the rest of us have to get by just knowing what I like and dislike, both in the visual and other arts. For a lot of people, that bar is extraordinarily low, as I well know.

Alan


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Jun 27, 2015 09:05 |  #25

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17610325 (external link)
Good is relative. My wife has made 20x30 prints of shots I should have trashed before she go to them. She likes them. I kinda still like her, after all these years. I don't trash anything anymore except OOF shots. Happy wife, y'know!

^^^^^^ :-) :-) :-) ^^^^^^

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Nathan
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Jun 29, 2015 12:23 as a reply to  @ BigAl007's post |  #26

I also have the Ultimate Workshop book for CS5. One great benefit of a book or other learning resource is that there are techniques, tips and tricks that I might not have even known to search for on Youtube or Google. Youtube videos are great if you run into a problem and know exactly what it is that you're trying to learn how to do. However, flipping through a book, I can find a technique I never even thought about or perhaps a new way of doing something that I already had my own method of doing.

This discussion hasn't really enlightened me about what's good processing versus bad processing. I have an above average arsenal of techniques that I can put into a photo (I'm oftentimes too lazy these days). I find myself avoiding Photoshop these days, even for cloning because Lightroom can cover the basics. That said... I don't know if the way I am editing in Lightroom is the best way.

I can watch videos on Youtube that remind me what sliders do what... but how is that going to help me judge if what I've done to a photo, using the words of the OP, "elicits the beauty of the image?"


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chauncey
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Jun 29, 2015 15:24 |  #27

but how is that going to help me judge if what I've done to a photo, using the words of the OP, "elicits the beauty of the image?"

Therein lies a quandary my friend. What do you aspire to be...an artist or a photographer?
I would submit that being a photographer, technically, is not a terribly difficult craft to learn.
Aspiring to cross that fuzzy line defining art is a totally different matter...not to even mention "what is art".
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Nathan
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Nathan. (5 edits in all)
     
Jun 29, 2015 15:38 as a reply to  @ chauncey's post |  #28

Okay, sir. You keep me in quandary. I'd like to see examples of those images that prompted you to start this thread. Then, I'd like to see images that you think elicit beauty.

Otherwise

IMAGE: http://andyw-inuk.smugmug.com/Other/Humour/i-wV3V75c/0/O/This-thread-is-useless-without-pictures.gif

Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
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Furlan
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Jun 29, 2015 15:55 as a reply to  @ Nathan's post |  #29

Nathan I love your post its such an elegant way of saying put up or shut up.




  
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kryptic4l
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Jun 29, 2015 15:57 |  #30

some of this may be curbed if we still took photographs one roll of film at a time. We live in an era of instant gratification, if something does not look good out of the box we delete and move on, we do not waste time looking for something that may or may not be in photo.




  
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I'm gonna rant a bit
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