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Thread started 02 Jul 2015 (Thursday) 16:56
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A new guy here,upgrade path for body and a thanks

 
Sounds
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Jul 02, 2015 16:56 |  #1

Hi all first the thanks. I've been reading here a while,i'd like to thanks many of you for the time and information posted and the kindness shown to others in your community. It's been very enjoyable and hugely informative reading some of the threads here pertinant to the type of pictures I'd like to take

I shoot with Canon and my love is really nature,landscapes feature in my pictures,but really it is with the fauna where my heart lies. I would class myself as little more than a novice,sure at 50plus i've used slr's for years but i've more used the camera to record details;I paint wildlife when given the time.

So to the photography and where I'd be very grateful for any thoughts or advice . My budget is tight,i'm hoping in time to be able to buy a new body but I set my sights fairly high i'd like for my next body to almost be something for me to grow into. Really I think I have narrowed this down to either the 1Div or the 7Dii,yes I have used the search function and read some of the threads i have found. If I can't afford these bodies ,or basically get fed up of saving for them then maybe the 1Diii will feature in my musings. I am using a 550D at the moment, it's a cracking little camera,but i'm starting to feel some limitations especially when trying for pictures of wildlife and birds.

I saved for yonks to get a 300mm 2.8(first is version) it's wonderful when I do my bit,kinda goes without saying I suppose and I also have a 2Xiii canon extender and want a 1.4 at some stage. I realize the 2X slows focus quite a bit,so my first real question is will the above camera bodies drive this combo of lens and extender faster than my 550D ? Would any body stand out as being fastest,i'm expecting the mark iv and 7Dii will be neck and neck here. I do also realize that using and extender is not the ideal situation when I'm limited for reach but this seemed the best option at the time. Years of keeping animals and birds plus years of wanting to see them in the wild has given me a degree of field craft to work with I seem to be able to get very close when I really want to ... I don't have the extender glued to the lens,but if my hunches are right and the little 550D is struggling a bit to drive this lens/ext combo then this will give me some help in the real world.

I'm in England guys,one of the things that this novice has noticed is many times I'm struggling to keep my shutter speeds as high as I want to,especially in the winter here, due to low light levels,so i'm curious as to how the sensor noise at higher iso compares with these three bodies to the 550D . Will they show much if any improvement ?

Guys,i'm sure my "big lens technique" is very poor,sure I need to practice (I do I am ;-)a) I know that ,skills worth having are not easily won!! I've read more than a few times about how good ones technigue needs to be with the densely loaded sensors on 1.6crop bodies when shooting longer focal lengths,this might be a silly Question,but it won't be the first one I ask:-)...will the mark iv aid me here while I build my skillset,or in the real world will there be little difference between a 1.6 and a1.3 crop body given the same amount of user error? Obviously the pixels are bigger on the mark iv and denser in number and smaller on the 7Dii but I don't know how this translates in real world senarios

Huge thanks for any thoughts help or advice,sorry the post is so long i've been pondering all this a long time now,really my heart is set on the 7Dii or the 1Div(which is an incredibly hard choice to make),if it helps I'm yearning to be good at bif .

Kind regards

Stu




  
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Colin ­ Glover
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Colin Glover. (3 edits in all)
     
Jul 02, 2015 17:24 |  #2

Whilst the 1Div is a mighty fine camera, a new 7Dii is one to beat for crop bodies. Even a new 5Diii will be a good buy as the new 5DR/S is now out. Hunt around as prices will start to fall soon as Canon wants punters to buy that instead of the iii. Look around for a low mileage used.model. Someone upgrading to one of the new 50mp beasts might want to sell their old 5Diii. But best bang for buck is currently on the original 7D. You can pick one up from Amazon UK for less than a 70D. Yes, it's the same sensor as your 550D, but by all accounts it's pro grade AF and build quality will suit you to the ground. Whatever you decide, don't let GAS (gear acquisition syndrome)make you spend more than you need. ISO performance on all bodies I've mentioned will be more than adequate for your needs.Oh, and I am happy with HDEW cameras on both speedy shipping and more importantly, great price (3 yr warranty included) :-)


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bumpintheroad
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Jul 02, 2015 17:24 |  #3

For what you're shooting I'd lean towards the 1Div for the better low-light performance. As long as you can handle the size and weight, that looks to be the best body for your subject matter.


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MalVeauX
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Jul 02, 2015 21:56 |  #4

Heya,

I'd go 7D2, refurb 7D2 here for what you're doing. Has everything you're after.

300 F2.8 with 2.0x or 1.4x and the 7D2 (APS-C) is going to give you plenty of reach, plenty of resolution, plenty of speed, aggressive focus and great high ISO (which you will need).

If you cannot save up for it, I would go for a 1D3 or 7D1 in the meantime. Both would be very potent AF systems compared to your 550d. The 550d's ISO performance, image quality and resolution are fine. But the 550d's problem is the autofocus and how aggressive (it's slow, doesn't latch on as aggressive) it isn't, and how slow the FPS are.

Very best,


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Sounds
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Jul 03, 2015 10:18 |  #5

Colin Glover wrote in post #17618434 (external link)
Whilst the 1Div is a mighty fine camera, a new 7Dii is one to beat for crop bodies. Even a new 5Diii will be a good buy as the new 5DR/S is now out. Hunt around as prices will start to fall soon as Canon wants punters to buy that instead of the iii. Look around for a low mileage used.model. Someone upgrading to one of the new 50mp beasts might want to sell their old 5Diii. But best bang for buck is currently on the original 7D. You can pick one up from Amazon UK for less than a 70D. Yes, it's the same sensor as your 550D, but by all accounts it's pro grade AF and build quality will suit you to the ground. Whatever you decide, don't let GAS (gear acquisition syndrome)make you spend more than you need. ISO performance on all bodies I've mentioned will be more than adequate for your needs.Oh, and I am happy with HDEW cameras on both speedy shipping and more importantly, great price (3 yr warranty included) :-)


Hi Colin,thanks for your time and words of wisdom,much appreciated!! Colin I really think the 5Diii will be out of the running for me. I don't doubt it is a stunning camera and would make a worthy upgrade, I concur it wouldn't surprise me is prices do fall. But i'd like a higher frame rate and a camera more designed for moving targets basically,the Af system of the 7dii especially is very appealing the IV is proven rock solid.

Thanks for the tip about HDEW yup i'm aware, I have only heard good things about them.

Regarding GAS:-D well I guess we all suffer and have dreams of course if money was no object them a 1dx and 500/4 mkii and some other toys would be cool,but it isn't,for so many of us,unfortunately. I'm told by close friends I'm a patient guy it took my a very long time to spend my pennies on the 300/2.8 I must have been musing a new camera for at least 8 months now. Colin as esoteric as these high end products are ,to me they are tools made for a job. I'm a simple practical guy Colin,I want to grab the right tool for the job,my issue is that the choice of body between the 7dii and 1div seems so tight the choice is incredibly difficult especially for someone like me who is not blessed with huge experience.

I think I'd probably rule out the 7D,with the 7dii now around I'd rather save longer and go for that as there have been so many technological advances in the 5or so years between the two models

Thanks so much for your time Colin,I'll never take the help given by strangers on fora for granted

Stu




  
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Sounds
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Jul 03, 2015 10:55 |  #6

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17618436 (external link)
For what you're shooting I'd lean towards the 1Div for the better low-light performance. As long as you can handle the size and weight, that looks to be the best body for your subject matter.


Bump I can't call you by name apologies. i'm blessed with pretty good health for my age so I suspect the extra weight of the iv won't be too much for me to cope with,it might actually balance better than the 550 on my prime? You seem pretty sure,have you used both of these cameras(ie 7Dii and 1Div)? Obviousy the early problems a few folks had with 7dii AF worried me slightly which was when I started to look at the mark iv. Some togs that i have huge respect for their abilities have expressed slight concerns that the 7Dii is great in good light , but IQ is not not quite what they want regarding shooting in less than ideal conditions,which we so often have here in blighty . Buddy where would you draw the line with regards to higher iso that you wouldn't want to use because of noise with a 1D mark iv? I've seen some stunning images captured with the newer camera as I have with the older,i'm not knocking either body,just questing to make the best choice for my set of circumstances,these two bodies seem so close to this layman it is very hard to pick one

Again many thanks for your time to help me,i'm very grateful
cheers
Stu




  
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Sounds
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Jul 03, 2015 11:25 |  #7

MalVeauX wrote in post #17618654 (external link)
Heya,

I'd go 7D2, refurb 7D2 here for what you're doing. Has everything you're after.

300 F2.8 with 2.0x or 1.4x and the 7D2 (APS-C) is going to give you plenty of reach, plenty of resolution, plenty of speed, aggressive focus and great high ISO (which you will need).

If you cannot save up for it, I would go for a 1D3 or 7D1 in the meantime. Both would be very potent AF systems compared to your 550d. The 550d's ISO performance, image quality and resolution are fine. But the 550d's problem is the autofocus and how aggressive (it's slow, doesn't latch on as aggressive) it isn't, and how slow the FPS are.

Very best,

Hi Mal another vote of thanks first. Yup higher frame rate and faster AF seem to be exactly what i'm looking for ,plus I guess a sensor that has a stop or two of "useable" extra higher iso over the 550D. My limited experience says this faster af will be a godsend in many situations for me.

Mal you mentioned refurb I presume you mean buying direct from canon?

Guys does anyone have any thoughts on the fairly specific questions in my first post,especially the bit about how user technique/pixal size manifests it's self regarding IQ on the iv and ii? Oh, and which camera's AF would drive the 300/2.8 plus 2Xii extender the fastest

thanks again kiddo

Stu




  
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BigAl007
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Jul 03, 2015 16:21 |  #8

Sounds wrote in post #17619206 (external link)
Mal you mentioned refurb I presume you mean buying direct from canon?

Unfortunatly both the Canon Refurb service, as well as the Canon Loyalty Program are only avilable to customers in the USA. Although I think sometimes it's possible to get them in Canada. Most Americans do not seem to realise that those offers are US only, or don't look for the country of origin of the poster.

Alan


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bumpintheroad
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Jul 03, 2015 16:56 |  #9

Sounds wrote in post #17619171 (external link)
Bump I can't call you by name apologies. i'm blessed with pretty good health for my age so I suspect the extra weight of the iv won't be too much for me to cope with,it might actually balance better than the 550 on my prime? You seem pretty sure,have you used both of these cameras(ie 7Dii and 1Div)? Obviousy the early problems a few folks had with 7dii AF worried me slightly which was when I started to look at the mark iv. Some togs that i have huge respect for their abilities have expressed slight concerns that the 7Dii is great in good light , but IQ is not not quite what they want regarding shooting in less than ideal conditions,which we so often have here in blighty . Buddy where would you draw the line with regards to higher iso that you wouldn't want to use because of noise with a 1D mark iv? I've seen some stunning images captured with the newer camera as I have with the older,i'm not knocking either body,just questing to make the best choice for my set of circumstances,these two bodies seem so close to this layman it is very hard to pick one

Again many thanks for your time to help me,i'm very grateful
cheers
Stu

I've used a friends 1Div but haven't had a chance to use the 7D2 yet. I own a 70D and my subject matter doesn't really benefit much from what the 7D2 offers and the low-light capabilities are pretty even between these two. Plus there are the concerns noted about 7D2 compatibility with some lenses. Between the 70D and the 1Div I saw much better low-light performance with the 1Div shooting high-school sports at night. But with full frame, larger pixel cells and wider ISO range (50-102400), the 1Div looks to be a better match for the conditions you describe.

You might want to use Flickr's Camera Finder search feature to compare the cameras for yourself.


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Bianchi
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Jul 03, 2015 19:33 |  #10

Welcome to POTN Stu

Want to keep your shutter speed up, then start shooting in M mode, get away from AV or TV.. Practice. Practice, Practice

Example... set the speed you want, then the aperture for more or less DOF, watch your metering and see where your at, and adjust Iso if needed....Adjust all parameters accordingly....Don't let the camera do these things, your in the drivers seat in M

The 7D II would be my pick for what you want, it will be great with your 300

Good luck & Happy shooting


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melcat
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Jul 04, 2015 01:49 |  #11

Sounds wrote in post #17619124 (external link)
...the choice of body between the 7dii and 1div seems so tight the choice is incredibly difficult especially for someone like me who is not blessed with huge experience.

The 1-series body

- has a grip, which makes hand-held verticals with a big lens much easier, and allows you to easily swap the rig between hands when carrying it around.

- has a bigger battery, which lasts longer.

- runs at a higher voltage. Some say this makes big heavy lenses focus faster. I couldn't say either in general or in particular for the 7D Mk II. I think it is not true for the 5D Mk III, which I tried with a heavyish lens in a shop.

I found the 1D Mk III and 300mm f/4 IS + 1.4x much easier to physically handle than with the 5-series body I had before (very similar size and handling to 7-series). Your lens stack is heavier again.

With respect to how much extra blur you'll get between 1.6 and 1.28 crop camera, the answer is simply 1/6/1.28 or 25% more at the same shutter speed, providing that blur is more than a pixel wide. And, if it matters at all it is more than a pixel wide at 18 or 20 Mpx, unless you're printing very large indeed. Therefore, the extra blur from the 7D Mk II over the 1D Mk IV can be counteracted by rasing shutter speed by 1/4 stop. IOW, don't worry about it.




  
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Sounds
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Jul 04, 2015 04:37 |  #12

BigAl007 wrote in post #17619501 (external link)
Unfortunatly both the Canon Refurb service, as well as the Canon Loyalty Program are only avilable to customers in the USA. Although I think sometimes it's possible to get them in Canada. Most Americans do not seem to realise that those offers are US only, or don't look for the country of origin of the poster.

Alan


Hi Al,thanks muchly. That's a shame but adds clarity for us brits thanks for taking the time.

best

Stu




  
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Jul 04, 2015 04:49 |  #13

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17619528 (external link)
I've used a friends 1Div but haven't had a chance to use the 7D2 yet. I own a 70D and my subject matter doesn't really benefit much from what the 7D2 offers and the low-light capabilities are pretty even between these two. Plus there are the concerns noted about 7D2 compatibility with some lenses. Between the 70D and the 1Div I saw much better low-light performance with the 1Div shooting high-school sports at night. But with full frame, larger pixel cells and wider ISO range (50-102400), the 1Div looks to be a better match for the conditions you describe.

You might want to use Flickr's Camera Finder search feature to compare the cameras for yourself.

Bump cheers for the second stab at educating me,having these practical opinions from folks is really useful for me. The flickr camera finder is unknown to me to I'll definitely dig into that. I read Brain Carmarthen's site alot trying to make progress to understand which tool should best suit my needs,the technical stuff goes a bit over my head and I admit I struggle getting my head around working some of the iso/ noise comparison charts,so a different take on this could be very useful
cheers buddy

Stu




  
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Jul 04, 2015 04:58 |  #14

Welcome to the forums.

I shoot a 1DIV and I've just sold my 5DIII
The 1D body is such a joy to use. I used to enjoy using grips but not now after having this camera.

I put it on par with my 5DIII so far. The higher ISO is maybe slightly better in the 5D.

The 1D is a better camera for me. I'd have one over any other camera bar a 1DX

There are plenty for sale on the forums and can be had for £1400 with a reasonably low shutter count.

I got mine for £1500 a few months ago off the talk photography forums with a spare battery and 21k shots on it.

If you don't like it the you can always sell it again, MPB photographic offered me £1450 for mine so you won't have to sown much more on a 7DII. Be better trying them in a shop like Jessica first. Obviously they won't have a 1DIV.

happy hunting.




  
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dexy101
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Jul 04, 2015 05:01 |  #15

Sorry, I just read you tried a 1D.

Have a look on my Flickr page in my signature. Most of my photos are with that camera.




  
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