Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 20 Jul 2015 (Monday) 04:36
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Does 50MP really make much difference with prints...

 
keithcooper
Member
Avatar
81 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2007
Location: Leicester, UK
     
Jul 20, 2015 04:36 |  #1

I recently moved from a Canon 1Ds3 to the 5Ds as my main camera and wondered about printing the images. Although not the biggest part of my business, architectural print sales do matter, so I was interested to see how I might need to change my print workflow for the bigger files.

Having made steps from 11MP to 21MP to 51MP over the years, I thought a simple print test would show the massive improvements since my first Canon 1Ds

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk …5ds-print-comparison.html (external link)

Sure, the differences are there (of course...), but the real surprise came when I asked some non photographers to compare the prints.

If ever there was a reminder that what we sometimes think of as important doesn't matter one jot to (most) people who actually buy stuff, this was it ;-)a

From my own POV all that extra detail is excellent - it's not what sells though ;-)a


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


bye for now
Keith Cooper
Northlight Images (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Kolor-Pikker
Goldmember
2,790 posts
Likes: 59
Joined Aug 2009
Location: Moscow
     
Jul 20, 2015 10:47 |  #2

keithcooper wrote in post #17637394 (external link)
Sure, the differences are there (of course...), but the real surprise came when I asked some non photographers to compare the prints.

If ever there was a reminder that what we sometimes think of as important doesn't matter one jot to (most) people who actually buy stuff, this was it ;-)a

From my own POV all that extra detail is excellent - it's not what sells though ;-)a

It's always been the photographer's professional obligation to produce the best work that they can, even if it goes under-appreciated. Even 100 years ago, when the craft was a whole lot more primitive than it is now, photographers still used the best equipment available to them. I've seen 8x10"s from 1905 that are as good as any B&W shot on modern cameras today, but I suppose people took them for granted back then as they do today.

I use a 51MP camera too, just with an 80% bigger sensor than the 5DS, and I don't think that it's overkill. As long as the extra resolution doesn't impact your ability to capture images (where speed is more important) or reduce dynamic range, there is no downside to having more pixels. I don't particularly care if the people viewing my prints know how or what the scene was shot with.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gonzogolf
dumb remark memorialized
29,328 posts
Gallery: 40 photos
Likes: 2059
Joined Dec 2006
     
Jul 20, 2015 11:04 |  #3

How big are the prints? The difference will shownthe larger you go. A 50 megapixel camera will have still be using original data where a 20 megapixel file will require extrapolation to reach the same size. You probably arent going to notice until you go above common print sizes.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
keithcooper
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
81 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2007
Location: Leicester, UK
     
Jul 20, 2015 18:45 as a reply to  @ Kolor-Pikker's post |  #4

"It's always been the photographer's professional obligation to produce the best work that they can, even if it goes under-appreciated."

Best work appropriate to the clients needs (and budget) is more the way I'd put it.

Then again I come from an engineering background where I've long believed that "Perfection is the enemy of excellence" ;-)a


bye for now
Keith Cooper
Northlight Images (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dan ­ Marchant
Do people actually believe in the Title Fairy?
Avatar
5,492 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 1870
Joined Oct 2011
Location: Where I'm from is unimportant, it's where I'm going that counts.
     
Jul 20, 2015 21:36 |  #5

keithcooper wrote in post #17638262 (external link)
"It's always been the photographer's professional obligation to produce the best work that they can, even if it goes under-appreciated."

Best work appropriate to the clients needs (and budget) is more the way I'd put it.

Then again I come from an engineering background where I've long believed that "Perfection is the enemy of excellence" ;-)a

Agreed.
An artist will produce what they want regardless of if anyone else likes/wants it. Their only client is themselves. If others happen to like it that is fine. They should do the best work they can.

Anyone who targets a particular market/customer doesn't need to do the best work possible. They only need to do better than the competition/well enough to please the customer. Anything more than that is wasted effort.


Dan Marchant
Website/blog: danmarchant.com (external link)
Instagram: @dan_marchant (external link)
Gear Canon 5DIII + Fuji X-T2 + lenses + a plastic widget I found in the camera box.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Kolor-Pikker
Goldmember
2,790 posts
Likes: 59
Joined Aug 2009
Location: Moscow
     
Jul 21, 2015 07:40 |  #6

keithcooper wrote in post #17638262 (external link)
Best work appropriate to the clients needs (and budget) is more the way I'd put it.

Then again I come from an engineering background where I've long believed that "Perfection is the enemy of excellence" ;-)a

Well I guess that explains the phase "They don't make ______ like they used to anymore".

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17638444 (external link)
Agreed.
An artist will produce what they want regardless of if anyone else likes/wants it. Their only client is themselves. If others happen to like it that is fine. They should do the best work they can.

Anyone who targets a particular market/customer doesn't need to do the best work possible. They only need to do better than the competition/well enough to please the customer. Anything more than that is wasted effort.

I don't know about wasted effort... on another forum a member recently started a thread about how their heart dropped after realizing that they set forward tilt on their tech camera for an entire architectural shoot without realizing it due to pressured circumstances, ultimately it turned out not to be as big of a problem as it seemed, but there exist cases like this where even small amounts of misalignment get people on the edge.
There are all kinds of clients, and if you don't need to achieve perfection at your level, it doesn't mean that the segment doesn't exist, or that you shouldn't bother to strive for it. Even if you're just a businessman with a camera, you still need pro gear to do pro work, and the skills to use it; in fact getting a perfect shot with a cheap camera is probably a better business investment then taking bad shots with expensive gear.

There's no justification for not wanting the best or being the best if your interest is anything more than casual.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
keithcooper
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
81 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2007
Location: Leicester, UK
     
Jul 21, 2015 17:08 |  #7

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #17638792 (external link)
Well I guess that explains the phase "They don't make ______ like they used to anymore".
...
There's no justification for not wanting the best or being the best if your interest is anything more than casual.

Well Voltaire seemed inclined to think so...
https://en.wikipedia.o​rg …fect_is_the_ene​my_of_good (external link)

I'm inclined to say that there is plenty of justification if you are running a business - well at least one aimed at making a profit ;-)a

However, I can quite accept that my acceptance of this is as baffling to perfectionists as their attitude is to me :-)


bye for now
Keith Cooper
Northlight Images (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 546
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jul 21, 2015 17:55 |  #8

keithcooper wrote in post #17639449 (external link)
Well Voltaire seemed inclined to think so...
https://en.wikipedia.o​rg …fect_is_the_ene​my_of_good (external link)

I'm inclined to say that there is plenty of justification if you are running a business - well at least one aimed at making a profit ;-)a

However, I can quite accept that my acceptance of this is as baffling to perfectionists as their attitude is to me :-)

Heh! In my career in the high tech industry, we had to focus on providing high-quality products "out the door"! As to profits, there is no happiness to seeing stuff with problems coming back and staring you in the face!:)


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,696 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 462
Joined Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
     
Jul 22, 2015 11:23 |  #9

Just a couple of thoughts from a relatively, 2008, new photographer who started with an old Rebel>5D>1Ds>1Ds3.

Evaluating IQ based on an internet published image is an exercise in futility.
A downsized high MP image will cough out a better IQ print than will a native sized print...with caveats.
Some of those caveats are listed here... http://blog.mingthein.​com …discipline-image-quality/ (external link)
John Q public wouldn't recognize a superior image, IQ wise, if it bit him in the ...
Witness the plethora of terrible professionals with good credentials selling their wares.

It goes without saying that it's all my humble opinion. :lol:


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Patrick ­ Turner
Member
Avatar
175 posts
Likes: 2
Joined May 2006
Location: Now in Granada, Nicaragua
     
Jul 24, 2015 22:56 |  #10

Only doing average, keeps the average down.
A photographer should strive to be an artist...not a puppy mill.


7D Mark II, 7D, 17-55 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8L IS II, 24-105 f4L IS, 100 f2.8L IS II Macro, 580EX II, Manfrotto 055MF4, MH054M0-Q2, 486RC2, Pelican 1510, Lowepro 202AW

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
keithcooper
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
81 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2007
Location: Leicester, UK
     
Jul 25, 2015 10:43 |  #11

Patrick Turner wrote in post #17643497 (external link)
Only doing average, keeps the average down.
A photographer should strive to be an artist...not a puppy mill.

Just fine if it's a hobby and you want to be an artist...

As to it's applicability to earning a living, somewhat less so.


bye for now
Keith Cooper
Northlight Images (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gonzogolf
dumb remark memorialized
29,328 posts
Gallery: 40 photos
Likes: 2059
Joined Dec 2006
Post edited over 4 years ago by gonzogolf.
     
Jul 25, 2015 11:01 |  #12

keithcooper wrote in post #17643856 (external link)
Just fine if it's a hobby and you want to be an artist...

As to it's applicability to earning a living, somewhat less so.

If you get in the habit of only satisfying your cliemts relatively low expectations you will limit your pathway to more discriminating, and more lucrative clients. The absolute worst defense to critique here is, "well my client was happy".




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
keithcooper
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
81 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2007
Location: Leicester, UK
     
Jul 25, 2015 14:04 |  #13

gonzogolf wrote in post #17643886 (external link)
If you get in the habit of only satisfying your cliemts relatively low expectations you will limit your pathway to more discriminating, and more lucrative clients. The absolute worst defense to critique here is, "well my client was happy".

And what's wrong with a happy (and profitable) client? Happy clients come back for more :-)

The secret is perhaps to not get into too many habits... However sometimes 'good enough' really means just that and no more ;-)a


bye for now
Keith Cooper
Northlight Images (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gonzogolf
dumb remark memorialized
29,328 posts
Gallery: 40 photos
Likes: 2059
Joined Dec 2006
     
Jul 25, 2015 15:28 as a reply to  @ keithcooper's post |  #14

Ain0m low hit low. You should exceed your clients expectations as that work is getting you uour next job. Do you want your doctor, lawyer, or accountant to have that attitude?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
keithcooper
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
81 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2007
Location: Leicester, UK
     
Jul 26, 2015 06:38 |  #15

gonzogolf wrote in post #17644148 (external link)
Ain0m low hit low. You should exceed your clients expectations as that work is getting you uour next job. Do you want your doctor, lawyer, or accountant to have that attitude?

Sorry, but I'm minded to believe you wilfully misrepresent my personal approach, which is to have happy clients, ideally by exceeding their expectations, but not necessarily by too much. Exceeding expectations can (sometimes) take an awful lot of time and effort - it is a business call as to how much is warranted for a particular job/client - one that I should add I'm happy to put my true name to (unlike some).

As to lawyers/doctors/accoun​tants, I expect competence, adherence to professional regulatory standards (since they a true 'profession' unlike photography) and a good service that makes me, the client, happy. Come to think of it, apart from the regulation, just the sort of service I would hope to offer... :-)


bye for now
Keith Cooper
Northlight Images (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

6,796 views & 4 likes for this thread
Does 50MP really make much difference with prints...
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is royd63uk
1087 guests, 356 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.