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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 09 Aug 2015 (Sunday) 17:50
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Which camera would you choose?

 
paddler4
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Aug 10, 2015 07:02 |  #16

With your last post, it makes sense to answer. Without knowing what you would use the camera for, people can only give you their preferences, not guidance focused on your use.

Just so you can put my answer into perspective, I own both a 5D Mark III and a 7D (first generation). I shoot all sorts of stuff, but more macro than anything else.

You said that your main interests are macro and telephoto. Given that, if I were in your position, there would be no question in my mind: I would buy the 7DII in preference to the 6D. In many ways, a crop sensor camera is preferable to a full frame for macro near minimum working distance, assuming that the crop has a higher pixel density than the FF (which is the case with the 7D2 and the 6D). You get more pixels on the subject with a crop sensor. This is the main reason I have a 7D, which I bought AFTER I already had the 5D III. The second reason is reach: if you like telephoto work, you need longer, heavier, more expensive lenses to get the same field of view with a FF. That is the second reason I bought the 7D. A third factor is that the controls on the 7DII (and 5D3) are amazingly good.

To make this real, when I have traveled this summer, I have taken both bodies, and although I love the 5D3, I usually take the 7D if I need reach, and I always take it when I am going to take macro shots of bugs.

I'll post one shot I recently took with the 7D, a 100 mm macro, and a 36mm extension tube.


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Fabercula
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Aug 10, 2015 07:30 |  #17

Thank you for replying.
Nice picture.


What about 7D Mark II and high ISO?
As the 70D was very good and being forced to buy a new camera I'd like to get a a 7d2; the only thing, that still stops me from making up my mind, is if it manages ISO up to 3200 better than the 70D.


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Aug 10, 2015 07:54 as a reply to  @ Fabercula's post |  #18

I don't know how the 7DII and 70D compare at 3200. You can find probably find reviews that will compare those two, and the 7DII to the 6D. I try to stay away from speeds that fast, even with my 5D3, although sometimes I can't. High ISO degrades image quality with every camera. The difference is how badly it does this.

Most macro work doesn't require high ISO. If you have very bright light, you don't need it. otherwise, for chasing bugs, most people I know use diffused flash. The picture I posted was IS0 200, 1/125, f/13, with a diffused flash. For things that don't move, you can use long exposures without flash. For example, the photo below was with my 5D3: ISO 200, 1/10, f/11. Most of my flowers I do indoors so that I don't have to worry about wind and can focus-stack, and for those, I use much longer exposures.


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Aug 10, 2015 07:56 |  #19
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Fabercula wrote in post #17663236 (external link)
Thank you for replying.
Nice picture.


What about 7D Mark II and high ISO?
As the 70D was very good and being forced to buy a new camera I'd like to get a a 7d2; the only thing, that still stops me from making up my mind, is if it manages ISO up to 3200 better than the 70D.

The 7D and 60D are 5 years old, and quite capable of good results at ISO 6400. The 70D is newer than both. The 7D2 is current state-of-the-art for Canon. ISO 3200 should be a piece of cake for the 7D2.


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05Xrunner
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Aug 10, 2015 08:00 |  #20

i owned the 7D for years and i wouldnt ever even attempt ISO 6400 on that camera. Its ISO performance is about the same as the 70D
the 7DII seems to do a better job and ISO3200 shouldnt be much of a worry shooting it at that setting


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Aug 10, 2015 11:50 |  #21

I have all three - 70D, 6D, and when the wife took away the 70D I bought the 7DII. I can say that both these crop cameras are not that great at ISO 3200. Passable, usable, but not great. And I did not see much of the differences in IQ between them. The 6D is head and shoulder above these two at the same ISO, particularly high ISO.

Still, I bought the 7DII after I already had the 6D. The FF camera, while much better IQ than the crop, was not long enough for wildlife, plus I wanted an advanced AF. The 7DII met both these requirements. Otherwise I would have got just another 70D.




  
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Aug 10, 2015 12:08 |  #22

Fabercula wrote in post #17663138 (external link)
Thank you everybody for answering.

The kind of pictures I like the most are: macros and telephoto.
In fact for this kind of photos I invested more in, the 100mm macro F2.8 IS and 100-400 IS II, both were stolen.
Lately, I began to appreciate also the wide angle; on Christmas I bought a second-hand 10-22 but about 15 days ago I got from Amazon a 16-35 F4 which I loved and that was stolen too.
I also like to shoot every now and then some HDRs, but I think this is not a problem as regards the camera or lens.
Landscape, monuments and architecture (when travelling) were covered by the 10-22 and 16-35.

My own plan would be to buy again, one by one and in the due time, the three lenses which were stolen:
100 macro IS, 100-400 IS II and 16-35 F4
I am aware that the 16-35 fits better on a 6D than on crop sensor, but I liked it all the same and I was thinking to sell the 10-22.
So far, I think but I could also be wrong (I ma not an expert and that's why I am asking you your kind suggestions), that I can go for either a crop sensor or a FF.

Only star and milkyway shooting might be a drawback should I decide for a 70D or a 7D Mark II, but let's face it, I am not going out every nights, it something that happens sometime and, if the 7DM2 were good at ISO 3200 I am ok.

My future gear will be like that:
Macro 100mm F2.8 L IS, of course macros
100-400 mm IS II for wildlife and some macros
16-35 F4 landscape and travelling
Samyang 14mm F2.8 for star and milkyway shooting
50 F1.8 STM for portraits and indoor shooting

Another important thing is that having a child of 9, I shoot videos of his shows at school (perhaps in this field the crop sensors are better).

Eventually, which camera?
70D, I was ok with it
7D Mark II as I have to buy and can buy an upgrade
6D and jump onto the FF

Thank you in advance and please forget if my Englis is not correct.

Heya,

Sounds like you need a very generalist camera. Before knowing anything, I would have probably pointed at the 70D because it really does everything quite well and is well priced. You already had it, and you liked it. But if you're buying something else, and you have options, as you pointed out, there are other things. The 70D & 7D2 will give you more powerful AF options, some better video options (if that's important to you; personally I would recommend you get a video camera if you seriously want video and not try to lug around a SLR with a big telephoto lens to do any kind of meaningful video that your iphone can't do from the front row, etc). The 6D gives you some basic video, and the lower noise full frame sensor for high ISO stuff (astro in your case). It can do some wildlife in skilled hands, but it's challenged compared to the 7D2 which makes tracking something fast moving quite easy. But the 6D can track things, and is phenomenal at stationary wildlife.

All three do good ISO performance. The 6D pulls ahead in high ISO. The 7D2 pulls ahead in base ISO (and has good high ISO performance) and the 70D is just a touch below the 7D2. The thing is, none of them perform a full stop different from each other. So I wouldn't stress this unless high ISO is where you live and you want the cleanest high ISO you can get, accepting compromise in other areas for it. For late night high ISO astro work, the 6D would be the one to go for.

If you're all about macro, you have the choice of using a full frame sensor, or you can go for the APS-C sensor to influence your macro work. I wouldn't say one or another is superior for this, because everyone in the macro world kind of uses both, it depends on overall needs/goals. Really stress the lens & lighting setup when it comes to macro, not the camera.

For your wildlife stuff, if they move a ton (birds for example), the 7D2 will be a no brainer. But the 70D and 6D are no slouch either with center points. The 7D2 simply has the edge for AF purposes and speed of FPS. The 70D lags behind a bit, but is still quite good at AF and reasonably fast with FPS. The 6D being really great with center point AF (and decent outer points in good light, but it lacks the modes and cases for AF that the 7D2, etc, series have which are a big deal for tracking fast moving specimens) and has slower FPS. So here is the compromise between AF options and speed of FPS, versus the areas you compromise for it compared to the full frame sensor. This same compromise exists with the 5D3 even, as it's not very fast in FPS and the 7D2's AF system is better (though the 5D3 is a more well rounded generalists camera). So really, depends on how you do your wildlife, but the bigger emphasis for me would be to get a long lens, as any modern camera will do quite well.

Looking over everything you're doing, I ultimately would lean towards the 6D probably, but then again, I almost want to say you should get a 1DIV and a video camera!

Very best,


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Fabercula
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Aug 10, 2015 12:27 as a reply to  @ Lbsimon's post |  #23

May I ask whether the 7D2's AF can help or not in focusing the subjects more than the other cameras?
My sight is not perfect and sometimes I have difficulties.
Thanks


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Aug 10, 2015 12:43 |  #24

Fabercula wrote in post #17663556 (external link)
May I ask whether the 7D2's AF can help or not in focusing the subjects more than the other cameras?
My sight is not perfect and sometimes I have difficulties.
Thanks

Heya,

After you complete an undergraduate degree in knowing how the 7D2's AF system works, yes, it will accomplish more with AF than almost all other cameras out there quite frankly. But it's not a simple point & click AF. It really does require study and practice to understand it's AF system and how to utilize it effectively.

Very best,


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Aug 10, 2015 13:59 |  #25

Thanks.

I am still in doubt.
I have a videocamera, a DV camera Canon HDV20 which has always performed well.
Up till now I've shot my son's shows with it but, as I am going to buy a new computer (mine is already 8yo now) and, since there's no FireWire ports anymore in new iMacs, I am taking into account to change it and I'd prefer to have these two features, video and photography, in just one piece as with the 70D.

Before my gear was stolen, it occurred to me to buy a 6D in replace of my 70D or have both; now, I'm not sure, but I'm more inclined to the newest 7D2 and its technology. I feel as it were more generalist than the 6D.


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Aug 10, 2015 16:20 |  #26

Fabercula wrote in post #17663758 (external link)
Thanks.

I am still in doubt.
I have a videocamera, a DV camera Canon HDV20 which has always performed well.
Up till now I've shot my son's shows with it but, as I am going to buy a new computer (mine is already 8yo now) and, since there's no FireWire ports anymore in new iMacs, I am taking into account to change it and I'd prefer to have these two features, video and photography, in just one piece as with the 70D.

Before my gear was stolen, it occurred to me to buy a 6D in replace of my 70D or have both; now, I'm not sure, but I'm more inclined to the newest 7D2 and its technology. I feel as it were more generalist than the 6D.

Unless you need a very advanced autofocus for fast moving objects (birds in flight, airplanes, fast sport) you may want to really consider the 6D.




  
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Fabercula
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Aug 11, 2015 03:23 |  #27

Sorry, should I make an effort and Look at 5D Mark III, are speed and AF getting any better?
Thanks


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Aug 11, 2015 07:17 |  #28

Why? Will it give you enough more than the 7DII for what you do that it is worth the extra money?

If you really are interested in macro and telephoto, the 5D3 will be NOT be better for those purposes. In fact, it is inferior. The only reason I bought a 7D to when I already had a 5D3 is for macro and telephoto work. One poster said that the two formats are similar for macro, but at or near 1:1, that isn't the case, unless you are comparing two cameras with similar pixel density, such as the 7DII and 5DS. Go to the macro forum on this site and look at the photos that have exif information. Last time I did that, I found no FF cameras at all. In fact, you will often see that people are using dated or cheap crop sensor cameras, such as Rebels, because advanced features aren't much use in bug hunting.

You will get slightly better high-ISO performance with the 5D3, and you will get better detail if you print very large. However, given what you say you want to do, I really can't see the benefit of a FF. You could spend the large difference in cost on other things that are useful for that kind of photography, if you don't have it already--an appropriate flash, a tripod, a monopod with a tilt head, extension tubes, a longer lens, replacing your stolen macro lens, etc..


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Aug 11, 2015 10:08 |  #29

Fabercula wrote in post #17664468 (external link)
Sorry, should I make an effort and Look at 5D Mark III, are speed and AF getting any better?
Thanks

I have the 7DII and the 5DIII, and as you state you prefer macros and telephoto photography, I'd go with the 7DII without a second thought. If it was landscapes and portraits I'd give the 5DIII the nod.


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Fabercula
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Aug 12, 2015 03:56 |  #30

Thanks again.

The problem is that some months ago if someone had asked me what kind of photography you like the most, I would have surely replied macro.
During these months I bought my gear, step by step, feeling my needs.
I feel these needs have grwon and now beside macro I like nearly every kind of shooting.
When travelling I love the palaces and architecture in general; for this purpose perhaps a 6D would be better.
I still love macro and animals so a 70D or 7D2 would be better (macro over animal as I'm not particularly interested in birding; I should understand whether a 6D suits my needs in this field)
Astrophotography is secondary because I like it very much but I do that very seldom.
For instance I come across a beautiful landscape, hanks down the 6D does a better result, but I can shoot with an aps sensor all the same.

Maybe I should understand what's more important to me between the advanteges of FF and a better AF and speed of a crop sensor.
The best thing would be to own both but that was in my plans, but I have to buy again everything and so make a choice.


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