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Thread started 13 Jul 2015 (Monday) 12:45
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Sony A7R II impression and images

 
Eddie
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Aug 12, 2015 14:37 |  #226

Im off to the 5DSR thread to start moaning about how bad it handles adapted Sony lenses. Oh, wait......


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mstg46
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Aug 12, 2015 14:41 |  #227

xpfloyd wrote in post #17666387 (external link)
Nice shot and processing

Thanks, I appreciate it!


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mystik610
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Post edited over 4 years ago by mystik610.
     
Aug 12, 2015 15:23 |  #228

idkdc wrote in post #17666379 (external link)
There's no iris in the shot. How can you judge focus here? You know any pro golf photographers shooting manual focus? Just because you can do it doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do when you have paying customers and contracts to fulfill.

To be fair, if accurate AF down to the iris is your benchmark, DSLR PDAF is notoriously bad in this regard because of the underlying MFA issue that is inherent to the technology.

At the end of the day, there’s no such thing as a perfect wedding camera….the key is knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your equipment and how to use it to get the job done. i.e., as much of a staple wedding cam the 5D Mark II was, it has a rather limited AF system…especially compared to the 7D MKI which was in the market at the time. And yet people learned to operate within limitations of its AF system to get the job done, because the 5D had some distinct advantages to shooting weddings. For the record, I’d say the a7rII’s quirks with the 24-70II and 70-200II are very much reminiscent of my old 5DII.

In my own decision to sell my 5DIII and go with the a7rII, there is an understanding of the limitations of the a7rII’s AF system with adapted lenses (and I have a bag of native and MF lenses to lean on when needed), but there are corresponding advantages too: EVF, IBIS, AF accuracy, resolution, low light performance, DR.

Also, at the end of the day, people put WAY too much emphasis on equipment when it comes to the ability to shoot a wedding successfully or not. Provided you have a decent camera, lens, and some basic lighting equipment….technical ability, creativity, ability to manage events, soft-skills, organization skills etc etc are of greater importance than whatever camera you use.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀIV - α7ʀIII
Sigma 14-24 f2.8 ART - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sigma 35 f1.2 ART - Sony 35 1.8 - Sony/Zeiss 55 1.8 - Sony 85GM

  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Aug 12, 2015 15:56 |  #229

Charlie wrote in post #17666235 (external link)
it's quite a black and white review. Starts with a preface "If you shoot anything that moves, it’s not ready for prime time.", then proceeds to track birds, which is by far the most demanding of all types of photography. I'm sure there are some shades of gray in between, birding is literally the hardest thing to focus on.

Looks like the camera will work fine for incidental wildlife, but if that's your bread and butter, you should stay away from it.

It'll probably do fine for people based photography, the A7ii does fine as is with native glass, I cant imagine the AF of the A7rii being downgraded from that. If you want top notch AF from the A7 series, you'll have to get native, and even then, it doesnt quite match DSLR, however it's good. There are plenty of DSLR's that have great AF, and if it's GREAT AF you need, then DSLR is your answer.

if good AF is all you care for, and like the whole slew of other features like silent shutter, ibis, 4k, high iso performance, adaptability with all lenses, optional small size, then the A7rii would be a good candidate.

I am not a performance AF guy - for my area of focus (pun) AF is merely a nicety. But, when I consider IBIS, BSI, EFCS, and improved body design - all those things make it a no-brainer upgrade from the a7R. Now I just gotta get busy selling stuff. It's weird to be taking photos of gear you are going to sell with a camera you are also going to sell. ;)


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
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mystik610
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Post edited over 4 years ago by mystik610.
     
Aug 12, 2015 16:01 |  #230

David Arbogast wrote in post #17666479 (external link)
I am not a performance AF guy - for my area of focus (pun) AF is merely a nicety. But, when I consider IBIS, BSI, EFCS, and improved body design - all those things make it a no-brainer upgrade from the a7R. Now I just gotta get busy selling stuff. It's weird to be taking photos of gear you are going to sell with a camera you are also going to sell. ;)

Funnier feeling is taking pictures of the camera you're going to sell, with the camera that just replaced it. It's like asking an ex girlfriend to officiate your wedding.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀIV - α7ʀIII
Sigma 14-24 f2.8 ART - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sigma 35 f1.2 ART - Sony 35 1.8 - Sony/Zeiss 55 1.8 - Sony 85GM

  
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jonneymendoza
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Aug 12, 2015 16:34 |  #231

idkdc wrote in post #17666192 (external link)
There we go, a review with pictures testing actual autofocus scenarios in different settings than just a living room.

My 5d3 struggles to focus on low contrast objects tbh


Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickr (external link)

  
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idkdc
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Aug 12, 2015 19:24 |  #232

I'm not sure if Sony has an equivalent, but I just use the Af assist beam on the 600 EX RT on one shot and that lets me shoot in those situations. The 7DII that I had access to actually afs in low light in servo better than my 5DIII . so I expect the 5DIV will let me shoot without the Af assist light.

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17666514 (external link)
My 5d3 struggles to focus on low contrast objects tbh


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idkdc
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Aug 12, 2015 19:34 |  #233

mystik610 wrote in post #17666437 (external link)
To be fair, if accurate AF down to the iris is your benchmark, DSLR PDAF is notoriously bad in this regard because of the underlying MFA issue that is inherent to the technology.

MFA? You micro adjust once. Pdaf? I forget what that acronym stands for. I shoot sharp irises fine with a 5DIII. It's not a high standard. Professional wedding photojournalism requires tack sharp eyes.

At the end of the day, there’s no such thing as a perfect wedding camera….the key is knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your equipment and how to use it to get the job done. i.e., as much of a staple wedding cam the 5D Mark II was, it has a rather limited AF system…especially compared to the 7D MKI which was in the market at the time. And yet people learned to operate within limitations of its AF system to get the job done, because the 5D had some distinct advantages to shooting weddings. For the record, I’d say the a7rII’s quirks with the 24-70II and 70-200II are very much reminiscent of my old 5DII.

In my own decision to sell my 5DIII and go with the a7rII, there is an understanding of the limitations of the a7rII’s AF system with adapted lenses (and I have a bag of native and MF lenses to lean on when needed), but there are corresponding advantages too: EVF, IBIS, AF accuracy, resolution, low light performance, DR.

Also, at the end of the day, people put WAY too much emphasis on equipment when it comes to the ability to shoot a wedding successfully or not. Provided you have a decent camera, lens, and some basic lighting equipment….technical ability, creativity, ability to manage events, soft-skills, organization skills etc etc are of greater importance than whatever camera you use.

I shot on a D700 before the 5DIII. Only moved to Canon because of the new 5d3/1dx Af system matching/exceeding the D700/D3. Do you shoot weddings full time in a major market? Going backwards in autofocus and having a lower keeper rate (huge time drain in cull/post) is just one more unnecessary snag to work out in a competitive market. Gear vs soft/hard skills is an old back and forth topic. If you want to be top of the market, why not have all three?


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markd61
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Aug 12, 2015 22:51 |  #234

It's ironic that the main topic of this thread is how well the A7RII focuses Canon (or Nikon) lenses via adapters.

What we are saying is that we want to use our existing lenses because the Sony lineup is not good enough for professional aspirations or even amateur expectations.
Yes, there are a few good native lenses, but in the main they are sadly lacking.
The prime lineup is decent but most working pros live and die by their fast zooms and Sony is not well represented with their offerings.

If Fuji was making this camera, the lens lineup would have doubled the switchers.




  
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idkdc
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Post edited over 4 years ago by idkdc.
     
Aug 12, 2015 23:44 |  #235

markd61 wrote in post #17666913 (external link)
It's ironic that the main topic of this thread is how well the A7RII focuses Canon (or Nikon) lenses via adapters.

What we are saying is that we want to use our existing lenses because the Sony lineup is not good enough for professional aspirations or even amateur expectations.
Yes, there are a few good native lenses, but in the main they are sadly lacking.
The prime lineup is decent but most working pros live and die by their fast zooms and Sony is not well represented with their offerings.

If Fuji was making this camera, the lens lineup would have doubled the switchers.


Yes!! This! I want Fujifilm's bodies and glass and Sony's sensor and video tech. Fuji's video tech is disappointing. I just wish I could use the Fujinon lenses on Sony's a6000...pity that Fuji glass doesn't adapt to any other platform at all. Nikon and Canon still have the leg up on full frame f/2.8 zoom glass.


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Aug 12, 2015 23:50 |  #236

markd61 wrote in post #17666913 (external link)
It's ironic that the main topic of this thread is how well the A7RII focuses Canon (or Nikon) lenses via adapters.

What we are saying is that we want to use our existing lenses because the Sony lineup is not good enough for professional aspirations or even amateur expectations.
Yes, there are a few good native lenses, but in the main they are sadly lacking.
The prime lineup is decent but most working pros live and die by their fast zooms and Sony is not well represented with their offerings.

If Fuji was making this camera, the lens lineup would have doubled the switchers.

Not necessarily. I think there are a lot of people who want to ditch Canon, but are hesitant to get rid of their EF lens collection because replacing lenses is often a lot more expensive than just replacing cameras. Sony has provided a solution for Canon users who were previously unable to switch camera systems because of the financial burden that comes along with it.

There are still holes in the FE lens lineup, but what did you expect from a system that isn't even 2 years on the market?

The Fuji story also isn't true. High-end Zeiss FE lenses >>> high-end XF lenses. Also note that the XF lens lineup is older than the FE lens lineup. Because of that it's pretty obvious there are more XF than FE lenses. But Sony is catching up nicely.


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idkdc
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Post edited over 4 years ago by idkdc. (3 edits in all)
     
Aug 13, 2015 00:07 |  #237

jocau wrote in post #17666969 (external link)
Not necessarily. I think there are a lot of people who want to ditch Canon, but are hesitant to get rid of their EF lens collection because replacing lenses is often a lot more expensive than just replacing cameras. Sony has provided a solution for Canon users who were previously unable to switch camera systems because of the financial burden that comes along with it.

There are still holes in the FE lens lineup, but what did you expect from a system that isn't even 2 years on the market?

The Fuji story also isn't true. High-end Zeiss FE lenses >>> high-end XF lenses. Also note that the XF lens lineup is older than the FE lens lineup. Because of that it's pretty obvious there are more XF than FE lenses. But Sony is catching up nicely.

But high-end FE lenses also cost more than XF lenses, although that probably has more to do with full-frame coverage. I think Mark is right in that several Sony lenses cost more than Canon counterparts - just look at the Sony Alpha 70-200mm f/2.8 SSM II! 3k! The Zeiss primes I'm willing to part with, but 3k for the zoom f/2.8 is a bit much when Canon's version is no slouch (there are few if any reviews on the SSM II to justify buying it, at least when I last checked). I suspect Sony pricing will get crazy for any E-mount f/2.8 zooms. Bit of a huge gap there, and one I suspect will be filled with $$$$+$500 premium pricing in the future.


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mystik610
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Aug 13, 2015 07:30 |  #238

idkdc wrote in post #17666733 (external link)
I shot on a D700 before the 5DIII. Only moved to Canon because of the new 5d3/1dx Af system matching/exceeding the D700/D3. Do you shoot weddings full time in a major market? Going backwards in autofocus and having a lower keeper rate (huge time drain in cull/post) is just one more unnecessary snag to work out in a competitive market. Gear vs soft/hard skills is an old back and forth topic. If you want to be top of the market, why not have all three?

I worked as a second shooter for years before going off on my own in 2011. I'd consider Houston to be a pretty major market. I never did it full time, but had booked so many gigs that at one point my wife and I had serious discussions about making a career out of this...but when I found out we were having our third baby early last year, I decided to put it on hold altogether.

I've shot enough weddings under my belt to at least know what the equipment requirements are. I used the a7r as a back-up for a while, but its AF is too unreliable and the whole system is too slow use as a primary camera. I picked up the a7II was earlier this year, however, and have been sold on the system since. AF with native lenses is actually good enough to replace the 5DIII IMO. It can't double as a sports body the way the 5DIII can, but it is good enough for event shooting and features like the EVF, IBIS, EF-C, eye focus, and the extra DR make it in many ways an upgrade to the 5DIII. The a7RII takes it a few steps further by upping the resolution, low light performance, and making further improvements to the AF system. I'd personally feel no qualms about shooting a wedding with the either the a7II or a7rII. Jury is still out on adapted lenses....they have their limitations and are pretty good but not ideal solution compared to native lenses. Based on what I've seen with the 24-70II and 70-200II, I'd be comfortable shooting a wedding with either of these lenses adapted to the a7rII....the caveat to the 70-200II is knowing that I'd need to pre-focus the lens occasionally if the lens is extremely defocused. (not a big deal if you're used to MF)


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Aug 13, 2015 08:03 |  #239

mystik610 wrote in post #17667219 (external link)
I worked as a second shooter for years before going off on my own in 2011. I'd consider Houston to be a pretty major market. I never did it full time, but had booked so many gigs that at one point my wife and I had serious discussions about making a career out of this...but when I found out we were having our third baby early last year, I decided to put it on hold altogether.

I've shot enough weddings under my belt to at least know what the equipment requirements are. I used the a7r as a back-up for a while, but its AF is too unreliable and the whole system is too slow use as a primary camera. I picked up the a7II was earlier this year, however, and have been sold on the system since. AF with native lenses is actually good enough to replace the 5DIII IMO. It can't double as a sports body the way the 5DIII can, but it is good enough for event shooting and features like the EVF, IBIS, EF-C, eye focus, and the extra DR make it in many ways an upgrade to the 5DIII. The a7RII takes it a few steps further by upping the resolution, low light performance, and making further improvements to the AF system. I'd personally feel no qualms about shooting a wedding with the either the a7II or a7rII. Jury is still out on adapted lenses....they have their limitations and are pretty good but not ideal solution compared to native lenses. Based on what I've seen with the 24-70II and 70-200II, I'd be comfortable shooting a wedding with either of these lenses adapted to the a7rII....the caveat to the 70-200II is knowing that I'd need to pre-focus the lens occasionally if the lens is extremely defocused. (not a big deal if you're used to MF)

Interesting. Have you shot a wedding as a primary or second shooter already with the a7II/a7rII with the 24-70mm f/2.8II and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II adapted lenses yet? Any thoughts on how they work in that environment? Are Houston weddings more slow-paced than New York ones? Not familiar with the area/market.


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mystik610
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Post edited over 4 years ago by mystik610.
     
Aug 13, 2015 08:24 |  #240

idkdc wrote in post #17667242 (external link)
Interesting. Have you shot a wedding as a primary or second shooter already with the a7II/a7rII with the 24-70mm f/2.8II and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II adapted lenses yet? Any thoughts on how they work in that environment? Are Houston weddings more slow-paced than New York ones? Not familiar with the area/market.

I hadn't picked up my a7II until I had put wedding photography on hold, so no actual experience shooting a wedding. Drawing on past experience shooting weddings, and current experience taking photos of my kids (which in a lot ways, can be harder than wedding photography). AF is worthless when adapting Canon lenses to the a7II, but native AF is very good.

Houston weddings are no different than weddings elsewhere. After having shot and attended so many weddings (including attending my friends wedding in NYC this past April), you realize they're all basically the same, regardless of how hard a bride tries to be unique lol. The most demanding weddings I've shot were Indian weddings....which are a big deal out here, given the size of the Indian community. The ceremony is chaos (compared to western weddings), and there's a lot of "extravagance" during the reception. Shot a few of these as a second shooter, but never took them on as the lead, as I'm not familiar enough with the customs to get a handle of the flow of events. I was supposed to shoot an Indian engagement party ceremony this weekend....planned to bring the a7rII to that as I had my pre-order in place when I initially took this one... but the final schedule and commute didn't work for me (story of my life right now).


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀIV - α7ʀIII
Sigma 14-24 f2.8 ART - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sigma 35 f1.2 ART - Sony 35 1.8 - Sony/Zeiss 55 1.8 - Sony 85GM

  
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Sony A7R II impression and images
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