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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 02 Oct 2015 (Friday) 22:52
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Disappointed model

 
nathancarter
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Oct 04, 2015 13:20 |  #16

Can the model tell you what she doesn't like about them?

It may be an easy fix. I've had this happen once before (exactly once). I changed up the editing style very slightly (just a different preset) and the model was happy with them.


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Alveric
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Oct 04, 2015 13:43 |  #17
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mike_311 wrote in post #17732245 (external link)
not true.

if its trade both need to come to a mutual agreement. If you as the photog want to dictate all terms, pay the model money.

OP, if you want to stay on good terms with the model, let them see the originals and let them choose. If not then just move on and next time make sure all parties understand the terms.

You make a good point: and that's why I always pay them money. I don't like TF arrangements, and this case is probably an example of one of the reasons why: the models feel entitled—feel they 'own' the photos to a lesser or greater degree.


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mike_311
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Oct 05, 2015 06:19 |  #18

why s

Alveric wrote in post #17732479 (external link)
You make a good point: and that's why I always pay them money. I don't like TF arrangements, and this case is probably an example of one of the reasons why: the models feel entitled—feel they 'own' the photos to a lesser or greater degree.

why shouldn't they feel entitled? its their image and likeness in the photo. i'd argue in many cases the image is made more by the model than the photographer ability.


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DagoImaging
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Oct 05, 2015 07:46 |  #19

My contract for TF shoots clearly says I will pick and edit the shots I feel are representative of my work and the model will receive xx-xx number of shots. I explain this to them prior to them signing the contract and once they sign it all expectations have been set. I work w/ the model to give them shots they want as well as shots I want.

I've never had a model w/ this attitude due to the expectations being set before the shoot begins. More communication on your end will help settle this moving forward.


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Oct 05, 2015 12:33 |  #20

I don't do TF anymore, but when I did, my TF agreement (you did have them sign and agreement right?) states they get x number of edited photos as selected by the Photographer.

They sign it up front, they know what they are getting, never had a problem.


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Post edited over 4 years ago by Alveric with reason 'Typo'. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 05, 2015 13:06 |  #21
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mike_311 wrote in post #17733400 (external link)
why s

why shouldn't they feel entitled? its their image and likeness in the photo. i'd argue in many cases the image is made more by the model than the photographer ability.

It is certainly a concerted effort, and that's why I prefer to compensate them with something more tangible and useful than mere copies of the photos. In addition to the $50 I give them per hour/session I do let them have the final 'keepers' for their own purposes. Haven't had a problem, though I do admit I haven't worked with models extensively.

That being said, once I've 'purchased' their services it's up to me to decide what to use and what not. I guess one of the things that helps me to avoid these problems is my approach: I have a list of 'goal shots'. I tell them what I'm after and what they need to do or how they must pose; then I might take a number of shots which I tell them are 'test shots' (some of them are so whilst I work the lighting and framing, others are 'refinement shots' whilst I perfect the take towards the final frame), and I even shew them on the LCD screen–I even ask for their input. Once the final image is in place I take about 3 shots of it for safety and tell them that's the 'final shot', then we move on to the next item on the list. Last session I had we did only four concepts before we ran out of time, and thus there were only 4-5 final images. Since all of the others had been 'tests' or 'refinements' the model tacitly knew they'd be discarded or, being so similar, yet inferior, to the final one it'd be pointless to ask to have them. Also, since two of the images were to be composites, I did explain that only the best individual ones would be processed and blended into the 'final master image', and thus there would be one and only one version they (and I) could end up with.

I reckon others work differently and some others, based on the kind of images they're producing, could never use my approach. Yet, even for headshot sessions with clients, I follow the same modus operandi. Last session I did I sent the client only three different versions to choose one from. Didn't have a problem nor did they complain about the lack of choices: having less choice actually makes work (and life) much easier and satisfying.


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Oct 05, 2015 13:38 |  #22

mike_311 wrote in post #17733400 (external link)
why s

why shouldn't they feel entitled? its their image and likeness in the photo. i'd argue in many cases the image is made more by the model than the photographer ability.

They should get what they agreed to in the arrangement. But having worked with inexperienced models they often misunderstand copyrights and image usage limits. Many believe that because they are in the image, they own the image and have rights to control its use despite any agreement. It's important to get the agreement in writing and the deliverables explicitly listed.




  
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Keith_D
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Oct 06, 2015 20:37 |  #23

I agree with other posters to let her know that you only choose, edit, and send what you believe are the best shots from the shoot. If she pushes back, just say you delete all other images that are not up your quality standards. Going forward, it would be best to clarify in the beginning what you will be providing.




  
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Oct 08, 2015 12:13 |  #24

I figured there would be mixed opinions on how to handle this. And there were. I definitely learned that in the future I will set clear expectations on the number of pictures and edits.

I wound up sending the model another 25 photos this morning. Just as a compromise since it was my fault for not making it clear how many she would receive.

But I also know that situation is just as much her fault. I spoke with a well respected photographer friend of mine who has shot with this model in the past. He said flat out that she's an unreasonable person to work with and would have warned me not to shoot with her. Live and learn.


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Oct 08, 2015 12:22 |  #25

FWIW,

RickFL wrote in post #17737760 (external link)
I figured there would be mixed opinions on how to handle this. And there were. I definitely learned that in the future I will set clear expectations on the number of pictures and edits.

I wound up sending the model another 25 photos this morning. Just as a compromise since it was my fault for not making it clear how many she would receive.

But I also know that situation is just as much her fault. I spoke with a well respected photographer friend of mine who has shot with this model in the past. He said flat out that she's an unreasonable person to work with and would have warned me not to shoot with her. Live and learn.

if you've ever dealt with paying customers, they can be unreasonable as well. managing expectations is a required ability.


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Oct 08, 2015 15:05 |  #26

Letting them know what they're getting from the get go and making sure they understand what they're getting is key. As long as you know that they know what they are getting then all should be hunky dory.


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