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Thread started 14 Aug 2015 (Friday) 17:54
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What does Canon need to put on the 5D4?

 
David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 18, 2015 10:39 |  #61

dexter75 wrote in post #17750021 (external link)
You mean like a 50mp DSLR that matches the cheapest medium format DSLR in resolution but for 1/3 of the price? Or how about the upcoming 120mp camera they showed off that they will be releasing? THAT is innovative, not a few more stops of DR most shooters never really benefit from in real world usage.

As per usual, I regard anything you post as utter nonsense. Nothing is innovative about 50 or even 120 MP resolution. A relatively low price is not an innovation either. I think you need to look up the meaning of the word.


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dexter75
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Oct 18, 2015 11:04 |  #62

David Arbogast wrote in post #17750391 (external link)
As per usual, I regard anything you post as utter nonsense. Nothing is innovative about 50 or even 120 MP resolution. A relatively low price is not an innovation either. I think you need to look up the meaning of the word.

Whats so innovative about anything Sony or Nikon are doing? Panasonic and Olympus were making great mirrorless cameras with excellent 5 axis IBIS (Olympus) years before Sony was ever making their A7x series. In fact, Sony just basically copied most of what Olympus was already doing with their OM-D line. We've seen cameras (or digital backs) approaching 14 stops of DR (Leica M 240 and the IQ180 back) years before Sony started up their A7x line as well. Canon is the first non medium format maker to approach the 50mp threshold which is indeed an accomplishment and no one else has anything close to approaching 120mp. So how can you say Canon is doing nothing innovative with their large megapixels cameras when all Sony is doing is copying Olympus and just adding megapixels?


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Oct 18, 2015 11:17 |  #63

longbeachgary wrote in post #17669215 (external link)
higher fps

Yes, and a larger buffer.

Anyone for a smaller body?


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David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 18, 2015 11:35 |  #64

dexter75 wrote in post #17750423 (external link)
Whats so innovative about anything Sony or Nikon are doing? Panasonic and Olympus were making great mirrorless cameras with excellent 5 axis IBIS (Olympus) years before Sony was ever making their A7x series. In fact, Sony just basically copied most of what Olympus was already doing with their OM-D line. We've seen cameras (or digital backs) approaching 14 stops of DR (Leica M 240 and the IQ180 back) years before Sony started up their A7x line as well. Canon is the first non medium format maker to approach the 50mp threshold which is indeed an accomplishment and no one else has anything close to approaching 120mp. So how can you say Canon is doing nothing innovative with their large megapixels cameras when all Sony is doing is copying Olympus and just adding megapixels?

This isn't a discussion about other mfrs, it is a discussion about what Canon should do with the 5D IV. The 5D III is such a refined excellent camera that, outside of a little boost in resolution (they'll keep it under 50.6 MP obviously) and adding 4K video, I'm not sure what compelling cool new thing the 5D IV will have. That's why I am suggesting that purpose the next cool thing is something we aren't even thinking of; something surprising and innovative. That would be great wouldn't it?


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Oct 18, 2015 19:30 |  #65

They need to at least match the D800/D810 in performance. If you don't think that an extra 2 stops DR is a game changer, well that's probably because you've never had the pleasure of shooting with a camera capable of it. DR>MP in my opinion. After switching brands, I can say I prefer Canon's simplicity and ergonomics, lens selection and availability, however the sensors just let you down in comparison. It's a major issue that Canon needs to get fixed and until they do, I'd rather shoot with my 36mp camera than a 50mp camera with over 2 stops less DR any day of the week! Canon definitely needs something innovative and new with this body I feel, but I suspect it'll be another "meh" release. The 5D3 is a very refined/trustworthy/wo​rkhorse of a body so they need to keep it that, just improve the sensor performance and resolution


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Oct 18, 2015 20:16 |  #66

Agree, need to keep the body the same, same batteries and the like, no need to have another change in all accessories for those that have built theirs up through the 5D MK III.




  
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dexter75
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Post edited over 4 years ago by dexter75. (3 edits in all)
     
Oct 18, 2015 20:36 |  #67

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #17750904 (external link)
They need to at least match the D800/D810 in performance. If you don't think that an extra 2 stops DR is a game changer, well that's probably because you've never had the pleasure of shooting with a camera capable of it. DR>MP in my opinion.

No, they really don't. Canon's popularity isn't hinged on how well they keep up with Nikon, never has been. Again, DR is not the be all and end all for most photographers. Its massively overrated. There are PLENTY of photographers just like me who wouldn't care if Sony/Nikon came out with a sensor that produced 20 stops of DR and Canon stayed where they are currently. Never switching and couldn't care less. All the 5Dx/5D4 needs is some more megapixels, upgraded AF system and a higher FPS rate and it will sell like hotcakes. Don't you worry :lol:


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Oct 18, 2015 20:58 as a reply to  @ dexter75's post |  #68

Cool, stick to old 11-12 stops DR if ya want while the rest of the world moves on.......I can say without a doubt it is NOT overrated as I have owned both systems and is a HUGE advantage to have when shooting anything. Why would you ever want less? Imagine something that appears closer to what the human eye can see......sound good? So, we can agree at the very least need to match the D810 in terms as far as resolution. At this point, still lacking 2 stops or DR which puts them how many years behind the competition still?


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dexter75
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Oct 18, 2015 21:31 |  #69

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #17751011 (external link)
Cool, stick to old 11-12 stops DR if ya want while the rest of the world moves on.......I can say without a doubt it is NOT overrated as I have owned both systems and is a HUGE advantage to have when shooting anything. Why would you ever want less? Imagine something that appears closer to what the human eye can see......sound good? So, we can agree at the very least need to match the D810 in terms as far as resolution. At this point, still lacking 2 stops or DR which puts them how many years behind the competition still?

I shoot models either under studio lights, outside with natural light or outside with a mix of strobes and natural light. Ive never once needed any more DR than what my Canon had in it. Even shooting sunsets at the beach where the model, rocks/ocean and sky/sunset all need to be properly exposed. I know how to light my photos properly. So no, I couldn't care less about more DR, its about as meaningless as megapixel count to me. I understand there are others who do and their choice is simple. See what Canon brings next and buy it if you like it, if not, you have other choices if a high DR is that important to you. Given its been close to 4 years for all these cameras, updates should be competitive. But Canon staying around 12 stops of DR certainly isn't going to make or break them lol


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Oct 18, 2015 21:38 as a reply to  @ dexter75's post |  #70

Do the same shoot with 14.8 stops DR and see if you notice anything else with your images.......It's like saying my 2001 Corvette runs great and drives great and is a great car. The 2015 Stingray is so overrated and who needs all of the extra horsepower and overall performance while mine works just fine. Then one day, you race a Stingray and decide your 2001 isn't so great anymore


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Oct 18, 2015 21:47 |  #71

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #17751073 (external link)
Do the same shoot with 14.8 stops DR and see if you notice anything else with your images.......It's like saying my 2001 Corvette runs great and drives great and is a great car. The 2015 Stingray is so overrated and who needs all of the extra horsepower and overall performance while mine works just fine. Then one day, you race a Stingray and decide your 2001 isn't so great anymore

Just be careful...you're arguing with a Canon spin-meister. In that world Canon can do no wrong and all shortcomings are poo-pooed. I suppose in his world all Canon needs to do is leave the 5D III exactly the same except for the 5D IV label. Now that is innovation! ;)


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dexter75
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Post edited over 4 years ago by dexter75. (6 edits in all)
     
Oct 18, 2015 21:51 |  #72

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #17751073 (external link)
Do the same shoot with 14.8 stops DR and see if you notice anything else with your images.......It's like saying my 2001 Corvette runs great and drives great and is a great car. The 2015 Stingray is so overrated and who needs all of the extra horsepower and overall performance while mine works just fine. Then one day, you race a Stingray and decide your 2001 isn't so great anymore

I did a shoot with the Sony A7 I had which is listed at 14.2 stops of DR. Zero difference. Shots from my t5i (11.2 stops DR) with the same setup actually look a bit better. And that was with the Canon 18-135 kit lens vs the $1200 Zeiss 24-70 f/4.That led me to return the A7 and get my current 6D. I posted the sample pics in another thread. Thanks for the suggestions though.

https://photography-on-the.net …read.php?t=1433​746&page=8


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Oct 18, 2015 22:05 as a reply to  @ dexter75's post |  #73

OK then, you can choose to ignore the performance and live in your own "DR doesn't matter world". This is not even an argument anymore........apparen​tly what I photograph and the rest of what people photograph must require more DR than what you choose to photograph ;)


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dexter75
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Post edited over 4 years ago by dexter75. (3 edits in all)
     
Oct 18, 2015 23:17 |  #74

Canon_Shoe wrote in post #17751096 (external link)
OK then, you can choose to ignore the performance and live in your own "DR doesn't matter world". This is not even an argument anymore........apparen​tly what I photograph and the rest of what people photograph must require more DR than what you choose to photograph ;)

I agree. Its like AF speed and AF points, don't need it. I shoot models standing still, focus speed isn't an issue for me. Ive never used more than two AF points, center and farthest to the right so when I rotate my camera, the focus point is up top. Most sports shooters also couldn't care less about DR, thats the reason Canons still dominate at every pro sporting event you see. Its all about what you shoot and your individual needs really :-)


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Oct 19, 2015 08:52 |  #75

THERE ARE THOSE OUT THERE WHO NEED/WANT MORE DR! I'm not sure what all the arguing is about...


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