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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 31 Oct 2015 (Saturday) 09:49
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Product Shoot pricing question

 
CrackedLens
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Oct 31, 2015 09:49 |  #1

I know there are alot of threads here on product pricing. Haven't been in the forum for a while, I'm glad to be back and still shooting!

I'm pricing a job now - for a client who is very specific and extremely savvy on just about everything. He knows exactly what he wants- but I have no idea how to price it out:

A series of product shots done on infinite white background

Five to six boxes each of the product (product is a box sized item - about 8 x10) - shot from three standard angles.

Bracelets: five bracelets. Each shot
in packaging, three or four shots
Without packaging two to three shots
Worn on wrist, three to five shots

The KICKER:

"We would just need the raw files, no Photoshop work required"

I know that is extremely rare, and mostly a no-no in the photog world. On one hand - no photoshop means much less time, but it also means I'm going to have to nail my exposures and stuff!

I know he will want all rights. I understand why, and I also know why he wants the raw only. I have shot this client himself before - a portrait shoot when I was just starting out. I gave him an amazing deal at that time. He's a good guy, but I don't want to get hosed, as I feel I did a bit on the first shoot.

Any ideas, advice, ect?

Thanks for all your help!!
Mike




  
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drdiesel1
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Oct 31, 2015 12:34 |  #2

If he wants the RAW and rights, sell it to him. Make sure you get what you need as far as price.


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CrackedLens
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Oct 31, 2015 13:16 |  #3

Thanks!! I'm just unsure of HOW to price such work...




  
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tcphoto1
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Oct 31, 2015 16:36 |  #4

If he wants RAW files I would ask about his capabilities to process and edit. Second, you can still determine the licensing whether you deliver fully edited files or not. Also, remember that a Buyout does not necessarily mean unlimited usage. You are the one writing the estimate and should determine how much you make on the project.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Nov 01, 2015 00:49 |  #5

I think you may be over thinking this. Seems like a pretty standard costing exercise to me.

1. The RAW issue is a non-issue. Unlike portraits and weddings (where you are picking a photographer for their PP style as well as their photography) it is very common in advertising for clients to use a different company to PP image to the clients vision.

2. You know how many shots the client wants. Once you calculate how long that will take you can multiply by your hourly rate to get the shoot cost.

3. Add any project specific costs (assistant, extra kit hire, travel, accommodation).

4. Usage rights. Do they want all rights or do they need all rights? Have you explained to them what "all rights" actually includes and why it is vastly more expensive than just licensing the rights they actually need?


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PhotosGuy
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Nov 01, 2015 08:20 |  #6

There's no "One size fits all" way to charge for a job. Mine are in here: Photography Rates


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Scott ­ Spellman
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Nov 01, 2015 09:49 |  #7

Its simple to charge for commercial product work based on the actual time spent calculated from start to finish. This also provides an incentive for the client to be organized and efficient. I shoot tethered to a laptop so you can very accurately see exposure and composition. My commercial product rate with full rights is $250 an hour, $800 for half day, $1500 per day.




  
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CrackedLens
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Nov 01, 2015 17:36 |  #8

Thank you all that responded to this thread. I appreciate your time and expertise!

The client does indeed want FULL rights.

I think I'm going to do this job for $200.00 for the time (90 min.) + $5.00 for each image delivered - looks like around 35 or so is what he wanting. That is with the RAW file, and full rights.

So

200 + 175 = 375.00

I might cut him a discount for a return customer (and since my studio is in my home and I don't have to rent equipment, assistant or anything) and scale it to $300.00.

That sounds fair to me.

Thanks again for all your help!

Mike




  
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Dan ­ Marchant
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Nov 01, 2015 23:15 |  #9

Seems to me you are massively under charging the client.

1. How long have you already spent talking to them? Have you included that time in your 90 minutes?
2. According to your OP the client wants up to 60 shots total. So assuming that you don't need to do any test shots and every shot you take is a keeper (unlikely) that means 1.5 minutes to set up and take each shot - not including time spent setting up your kit, unpacking arranging the items for the shoot, stripping down your kit and repacking the items and arranging collection or any follow up work invoicing the client and chasing payment.
3. $5 per RAW file for full rights?!? That fee is too low for single use on one media (one website) for a set period (3-5 years) but for unlimited worldwide usage across all media forever that fee should be at least 10-15x more.

Seems to me you are failing to address the issue of media usage rights with your client and in so doing set yourself up for serious problems down the line. Put simply an image is worth more, the more it is seen. Your client may be small now so few people will see the images. They use it on their website and only a few thousand people see it and they generate a few hundred sales from those images.

It doesn't seem worthwhile to go to the trouble of explaining usage rights and how they shouldn't be paying for the right to use the image in Venezuela, China, Bhutan or in an advert in the WSJ when all they want is images to use on their website. It's easier just to give away all the rights that they won't use, instead of educating them and doing a license that grants them only the rights then NEED (with a clause stating they can license additional rights for an additional fee).

But what happens when the client becomes big/successful or alternatively recommends your services to another bigger company. "This guy is great - he does wonderful work and only charges X for unlimited rights". Now your images are being used to sell products world-wide and are appearing in adverts in the top flight newspapers and magazines. They are seen by millions of people and generate tens of thousands of sale, yet you still just get $300 because your client knows that unlimited rights are basically free.


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drdiesel1
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Nov 01, 2015 23:35 |  #10

Based on what you are saying, I would charge for a half day @ $800 Why short change yourself.


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gonzogolf
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Nov 02, 2015 00:31 |  #11

Make sure he understands the difference between unedited and RAW.




  
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tcphoto1
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Nov 02, 2015 07:02 |  #12

It is disappointing how photographers underestimate the value of their work. I understand how the recession, availability of photographers and DIY'ers has changed our Industry but your actions effect all of us eventually. I have had other jobs when the economy struggled, so I understand having to pay the bills. I also know that there are times when you quote and realistic rate considering the difficulty of shots, quantity and usage and be prepared to walk away. Sometimes, it's not the client for you.


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Nightstalker
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Nov 02, 2015 13:07 as a reply to  @ CrackedLens's post |  #13

Pricing this job you need to be looking at a Creative Fee plus Licensing Fee.

As described I'd be looking at a 1/2 day Creative Fee (say $750) PLUS Licensing.

For full rights I'd be looking for around $4000.

For 12 months web site use maybe $10 per image - after 12 months if they still want to use the images on the web then they pay you again.

For use in print media - maybe $50-$100 per image per use - well you get the idea.


  
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Nov 02, 2015 13:40 |  #14

CrackedLens wrote in post #17768505 (external link)
Thank you all that responded to this thread. I appreciate your time and expertise!

The client does indeed want FULL rights.

I think I'm going to do this job for $200.00 for the time (90 min.) + $5.00 for each image delivered - looks like around 35 or so is what he wanting. That is with the RAW file, and full rights.

So

200 + 175 = 375.00

I might cut him a discount for a return customer (and since my studio is in my home and I don't have to rent equipment, assistant or anything) and scale it to $300.00.

That sounds fair to me.

Thanks again for all your help!

Mike

I"m looking at your price quote and I have to ask, have you ever done a jewelry shoot before? As others have mentioned, 90mins start to finish sounds a wee bit "optimistic". $5 for each image delivered, full rights? You'd make more money selling stock images at that rate.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Nov 02, 2015 15:04 |  #15

CrackedLens wrote in post #17768505 (external link)
Thank you all that responded to this thread. I appreciate your time and expertise!

The client does indeed want FULL rights.

I think I'm going to do this job for $200.00 for the time (90 min.) + $5.00 for each image delivered - looks like around 35 or so is what he wanting. That is with the RAW file, and full rights.

So

200 + 175 = 375.00

I might cut him a discount for a return customer (and since my studio is in my home and I don't have to rent equipment, assistant or anything) and scale it to $300.00.

That sounds fair to me.

Thanks again for all your help!

Mike

this kind of sounds like "crank it out just to get it done" pricing, not "these will be great to show other clients" pricing. The difference is probably what you see reflected in most of the other people in this thread's pricing and yours.

I think that it is possible to provide really good quality with low pricing, but when I do it I am dealing with an advertising agency who totally insulates me from the client. The product shows up at the door and I upload processed JPGs to Dropbox. Outside of shooting and uploading i spend about a minute and a half on the front end, and a minute and a half invoicing. I generally shoot from 50-125 images at a time and would be making more per image than you are if you charged your full price.

Discounting a returning customer? Sorry but that just sounds ridiculous. Under no circumstances would I give a discount just because they returned. Especially approx. 25 percent that you are considering.

If you are not shooting LV, you will have time looking at each image, at least I hope you do. Oh and again, for the job i'm talking about above, i do convert to JPG because I have to apply some color correction, rotation, sharpening, etc. I cannot guarantee they get the image I want them to see without doing that work. They do handle cropping and color correction after delivery.


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Product Shoot pricing question
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