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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 23 Oct 2015 (Friday) 13:06
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Total new-bee question?

 
Reservoir ­ Dog
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Nov 15, 2015 21:10 |  #46

kids kids kids, they give so much to the pictures, so natural, it would be sad to not stop those moments in time to keep and share those memories :-)

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ebiggs
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Nov 16, 2015 09:29 |  #47

gonzogolf wrote in post #17785222 (external link)
This is your chance to make us understand. Is there a bible passage I missed?

It is not my task to install moral beliefs and values in people that seem uninterested in them. What if we changed the venue to a swim park? Maybe the beach? What if the 'photographer' has a large tele? Or, are 'upskirt" photos OK? How about shooting cleavage of an unknown woman without her consent or knowledge. All legal but certainly not right. Bible verse or no.
Sometimes you just have to know what to do or refrain from doing and do what is right.

If you feel the need to shoot photos of other people's kids, go ask and talk to the parents first.

And, yes, I can 100% guarantee you will get a visit from the schools SRO if you tried that around here at a local school play ground.

While morals do prescribe dos and don'ts, morality is ultimately a personal compass of right and wrong. Isn't it?


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Xyclopx
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Nov 16, 2015 09:35 |  #48

ebiggs wrote in post #17785787 (external link)
It is not my task to install moral beliefs and values in people that seem uninterested in them. What if we changed the venue to a swim park? Maybe the beach? What if the 'photographer' has a large tele? Or, are 'upskirt" photos OK? How about shooting cleavage of an unknown woman without her consent or knowledge. All legal but certainly not right. Bible verse or no.
Sometimes you just have to know what to do or refrain from doing and do what is right.

If you feel the need to shoot photos of other people's kids, go ask and talk to the parents first.

And, yes, I can 100% guarantee you will get a visit from the schools SRO if you tried that around here at a local school play ground.

ebiggs.... people have posted pictures in this thread showing you beautiful pictures of kids. i also posted the same via a link a few pages back, which you also ignored. that picture i posted is very famous, and from one of the most revered photographers of all time. he has many pictures of kids. why?--cause pictures of kids are beautiful.

do you find anything morally objectionable to those photos?

While morals do prescribe dos and don'ts, morality is ultimately a personal compass of right and wrong. Isn't it?

compasses don't always point in the right direction. i can tell you the one on my iphone is always 10-30deg off. i'm thinking france ain't liking some people's moral compasses right now.


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Luckless
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Nov 16, 2015 09:43 |  #49

There is a rather huge difference between taking a photograph of someone in public, regardless of age, and deliberately trying to violate their general privacy by getting around their clothing or photographing them where they believe they aren't able to be observed by others.

So again, if you are passing by a school yard and spot a scene showing some impactful human emotion, and you grab a photo of it, then where exactly is the morally terrible aspect of it? If you wish to be part of a community, and you choose to go out in public within that community, then you have agreed to be observed by that community. (And in turn judged, etc.) If you wish to maintain your privacy and the privacy of your family from public observations, then it is on You to take steps to do so, not the rest of the community to stop observing you and your actions.


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gonzogolf
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Nov 16, 2015 10:01 |  #50

ebiggs wrote in post #17785787 (external link)
It is not my task to install moral beliefs and values in people that seem uninterested in them. What if we changed the venue to a swim park? Maybe the beach? What if the 'photographer' has a large tele? Or, are 'upskirt" photos OK? How about shooting cleavage of an unknown woman without her consent or knowledge. All legal but certainly not right. Bible verse or no.
Sometimes you just have to know what to do or refrain from doing and do what is right.

If you feel the need to shoot photos of other people's kids, go ask and talk to the parents first.

And, yes, I can 100% guarantee you will get a visit from the schools SRO if you tried that around here at a local school play ground.

While morals do prescribe dos and don'ts, morality is ultimately a personal compass of right and wrong. Isn't it?

Read through the responses here. You are the one who is focused on schoolyards and upskirts. What you are missing is the 99.999% of the photo opportunities that do not include a perverted motive. You keep wanting to turn the discussion to a scenario that is so rare as to almost be an urban legend. Am I required to get every parent to sign off before i shoot photos of a baseball game. Am I supposed to find every parent in the crowd before I shoot photos of a parade? Try to to set aside the spectre of a creep in a raincoat for a second and focus on real examples.




  
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JeffreyG
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Nov 16, 2015 10:16 as a reply to  @ ebiggs's post |  #51

What if we changed the venue to a swim park? Maybe the beach? What if the 'photographer' has a large tele? Or, are 'upskirt" photos OK?

No, those situations are not OK, but pointedly, none of us are suggesting that they are.

You are the one that can only imagine the worst of every photographer. Why do you assume that the photos must be driven by salacious intent?

Also, have you been reading any of the responses you are arguing against....

And, yes, I can 100% guarantee you will get a visit from the schools SRO if you tried that around here at a local school play ground.

Nobody cares, we settled the legal discussion earlier and so this hypothetical cop's opinion on the morality of the question is less important than the opinion of the real people in this thread.

Morality is a personal compass based on something. The enlightenment suggests we be secure in our own life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Religion often tells us self-harm is immoral (sloth, gluttony, vanity).

I don't see these pictures going against either moral basis, which is what we are arguing.


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ebiggs
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Nov 18, 2015 10:58 as a reply to  @ JeffreyG's post |  #52

Of course, like any topic, you can find some good. Every cloud has a silver lining, type thing. It does not mitigate the base premise of, don't take photos of other people children. It is necessary to qualify that?
I did a little non-scientific survey at my local MacDonald's when I noticed a few neighbors there yesterday at lunchtime.
I simply asked if they were OK with a total stranger taking random photos of their kids at the park in town?

I don't know where the 99.9999% number came from (computer keyboard?) but it was 100% said absolutely not.

Now you guys can make all the excuses you want and find scenarios where you think it is justified but you will be in a minority with the normal Moms out there. If you please, I will adjust my statement to, "Generally, it is not a good idea to take photos of other people's kids without the parents permission." So don't do it.

Is it not proper to expect what I consider to be moral to come as second nature to all people? We each know in our minds there are certain things that are just morally wrong. Legal or not has nothing to do with it. You know what they are. You shouldn't need me to tell you. Yes, you can find places where it is OK but you know which one's are not.

It looks like this thread is going no place. Obviously, neither of us are going to change our minds.
Good-bye


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Xyclopx
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Xyclopx. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 18, 2015 11:13 |  #53

ebiggs wrote in post #17788568 (external link)
It looks like this thread is going no place. Obviously, neither of us are going to change our minds.
Good-bye

it's going nowhere cause you're ignoring everyone's questions and points. #1: can you find a case where a picture taken at a school has led to a stranger to search out that child and cause harm? #2: do you find anything immoral with the pictures posted?

i bet you can't. and that's the problem. the logical thing is to realize that maybe it isn't a problem, and that stating so is just spreading paranoia. a quick google of the defintion of paranoia:

"suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification"

the problem here is you can't find any demonstrable basis for your assertion. sure, there are lots of people who don't want pictures taken of their kids. i think if you ask the same people, half of them won't think it's okay for pictures to be taken of themselves either. and, depending on how the question is asked, or how it's phrased, you might get drastically different results one way or the other--but for sure their answers will reflect the will of the interviewer unless he is extremely careful in his words and demeanor.

"generally it's not a good idea" because we might run into people that are paranoid and would call police for nothing. i get that. clearly.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Nov 18, 2015 18:15 |  #54

ebiggs wrote in post #17788568 (external link)
Of course, like any topic, you can find some good. Every cloud has a silver lining, type thing. It does not mitigate the base premise of, don't take photos of other people children. It is necessary to qualify that?

Yes, of course it is. There is no such base premise except in your mind and all the "reasons" you have given for it are wrong (as in false).


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ThomasDidymus
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Nov 21, 2015 00:12 |  #55

So it has been a while since I posted to this thread and I have found out a few things. First Saint Augustine is good to go for street photography, and second if your are carrying more than one camera and a gear bag most people assume that your a pro. Last month I was stopped by eight people and asked to take a photo of them with their camera. One Guy had a Canon 5d mk3 and I was shocked as I have no were near that kind of gear. I love were I live and love that the couture is has a lot of tourism so there is alway something going on. As far as photographing people that I don't ask for permission I try not to go there yet. I am still learning so there is a lot of other things to photograph.


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AlFooteIII
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Nov 21, 2015 00:56 as a reply to  @ ThomasDidymus's post |  #56

Oh... right... there was a totally innocent genesis to this tempest in a teapot! ;)

So glad you are having fun and learning!


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