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Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
Pondrader
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Dec 22, 2015 10:02 as a reply to  @ post 17828340 |  #5266

Thats a good question, it would be nice to know. I did ask yesterday so I am unsure. My hope is my next camera will be as good in the not so good light


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Dec 22, 2015 10:34 |  #5267

Depth of focus (which is what Canon states MFA works from) vs Depth of Field (what the rest of us really care about) are related but very different. The depth of focus (at the sensor level) is much smaller in overall depth than the depth of field. Thus why these adjustments are very, very tiny, but do produce noticeable results in the final image.

Here is a diagram that might help. Slice just one side of the field part of the diagram into 8 points.... ;) MFA adjusts the right side of this diagram, not the left, but has an impact on the left.

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Pondrader
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Dec 22, 2015 10:35 |  #5268

One more attribute Im looking for is Where I want focus, not just good focus but where I need it !! and do it without jitterbugin because if you hesitate its all over. My old 7DII was magical at doing this


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TeamSpeed
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Post edited over 3 years ago by TeamSpeed. (4 edits in all)
     
Dec 22, 2015 10:39 |  #5269

High contrast targets should always draw that kind of steady focus. Also the camera doesn't know where you want focus. By just putting a focus point over an area of the subject material doesn't tell the camera where you want focus, it just runs its normal algorithms of "find the closest highest contrast point from the area under the AF point(s) selected". Sometimes, you may have to focus on something else near to get focus on the critter you are shooting. Nothing new with the 7D2 on this front, I had to do that with the 1D3 and 1D4 from time to time.

Great pic, but I would hope any 7D2 could do that, as there really is nothing else to really focus on in that area of the image, given the conditions the camera follows for finding focus.


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Pondrader
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Dec 22, 2015 10:44 |  #5270

Sometimes they can blend into the back ground so well, always is not a word I would use when it comes to shooting animals it good cover. there are many struggling with that one all the time.


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Dec 22, 2015 10:49 |  #5271

Slightly more challenging but I still see areas of high contrast there. However, the area of most contrast is the snow on the rocks behind the critter, and that is where it to have taken the focus, at least from what I can see. The focused area seems to start at the critter, but it seems a majority is in focus behind the animal.

You know where you wanted the focus, but again software is driving everything, and that software certainly cannot determine intent.

You certainly have a variety of animals in your area. The best we get right now are geese and a few birds that are silly enough to stay around.


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Pondrader
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Pondrader.
     
Dec 22, 2015 10:56 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #5272

Canon told me on the phone the software is doing its best guess at where you wish focus next, thats why they wish for centre point and one shot. and yes I have many animals very near my home


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digital ­ paradise
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Dec 22, 2015 10:56 |  #5273

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17828427 (external link)
Depth of focus (which is what Canon states MFA works from) vs Depth of Field (what the rest of us really care about) are related but very different. The depth of focus (at the sensor level) is much smaller in overall depth than the depth of field. Thus why these adjustments are very, very tiny, but do produce noticeable results in the final image.

Here is a diagram that might help. Slice just one side of the field part of the diagram into 8 points.... ;) MFA adjusts the right side of this diagram, not the left, but has an impact on the left.

[GIFS ARE NOT RENDERED IN QUOTES]

The move at the sensor level has to be smaller. Extremely fine moves. I did figure that out very quickly. I would have preferred that Canon also provided a value of an MFA move at the sensor level. I imagine it is not variable based on distance to target. It can't be. That was what threw me off. Canon documentation is limited.


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Dec 22, 2015 10:58 |  #5274

Sure, AI Servo is predictive, and tries to determine direction and keep AF. However that is a double-edged sword. When you use AI Servo on a static subject, it then tries to predict focus next and can move things around on you, sometimes imperceptibly, and that will cause focus issues. I rely heavily on AI Servo predictive analysis, and run any number of the AF use cases in the AF menu when shooting sports. That is considerably harder, in many cases, than moving wildlife. AI Servo on static subjects can produce results that are unexpected however, been there many times. :(

If you don't change your AF case settings, and try to shoot moving targets vs fairly slow or non-moving targets, you won't always get good results. That menu is a very important one on the 5D3, 1D4, 1DX and 7D2.

Also in regard to center point, the 7D2 is the best APS-C to date in using any of the AF points to track motion. I rarely run center point at games or events, I am almost always using a perimeter AF point. You cannot shoot sports with center point and be close to the action, your results will suffer.


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Pondrader
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Dec 22, 2015 11:08 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #5275

At time its true, but I've never seen animals sit still for long, Most everything I post is on the move regardless of weather they like static or not. I use AIservo 100% of the time. using AIservo I can pull focus to incorporate more then one subject, using spot in this way is one of my fav ways to get focus right where you want it. This can be seen in the view finder


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Post edited over 3 years ago by Pondrader. (3 edits in all)
     
Dec 22, 2015 11:22 |  #5276

I'm not against MFA at all, and I totally understand how it can change how everything comes together and in focus, but if you can get a camera and your lenses to be so close that very little MFA is needed, what could be wrong with that. How could looking for that be wrong. Is it about being overly picky or you think so much of yourself as you must have the best. For me its about inner satisfaction in the images I produce. I don't make money, I don't sell much, It just gives me great pleaser to see people enjoy my efforts.

Edit :: I should add every image I have just posted was without any MFA on my 7DII. it was set to zero and off ..If my next camera needs a touch hear and there it will get it

This last one is with my 7D,...and it has zero MFA as well


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Dec 22, 2015 11:28 |  #5277

Definitely if you can get a camera and the lenses to operate with as little adjustment as possible, it is good. However for as long as I have been shooting Canon, that has always seemed to have been an issue. Before 2007, we had to send in our cameras and lenses to have them recalibrated together. Then you would have issues once you moved to new lenses or 3rd party lenses, etc. MFA is an easy and sometimes necessary thing to get the most out of your camera, and it addresses the tolerances of BOTH your camera and your lenses. Focus isn't just about the body.

I look at it this way:
- I have a camera with lots of features that I paid alot of money for
- I have lots of lenses that are 3rd party and Canon
- I want the best results I can get.
- I paid for the MFA feature.
- I HATE having to box up my equipment and send it somewhere only to wait to see what happens.

Therefore why wouldn't I use MFA like I would use any other feature or setting on the camera to get the best results I possibly could? This is substantially more acceptable to me than sending equipment off, waiting, and dealing with all the drama. It makes little sense to have these features that are designed to help you be more efficient, but yet not use them, and rather go through more tedious time consuming activities to try to fix some of the issues, only to potentially have the same issues should I change out lenses or the body later. MFA takes minutes, sending stuff in or trying different bodies until one works the way I want takes days, or weeks.

Also, why wouldn't I learn all there is to learn about all the different features in the AF submenus so that I have the correct settings for the different types of situations I might face? That is the 2nd part of the equation.

This is how I approach this, and I shoot a wide variety of things from wildlife to kids to portraits to paid gigs. I have all 3 custom slots on the 7D2 and 5D3 filled up to cover all these situations, all with different stored settings, AF and otherwise. :)


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digital ­ paradise
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Dec 22, 2015 11:47 |  #5278

Pondrader wrote in post #17828489 (external link)
I'm not against MFA at all, and I totally understand how it can change how everything comes together and in focus, but if you can get a camera and your lenses to be so close that very little MFA is needed, what could be wrong with that. How could looking for that be wrong. Is it about being overly picky or you think so much of yourself as you must have the best. For me its about inner satisfaction in the images I produce. I don't make money, I don't sell much, It just gives me great pleaser to see people enjoy my efforts.

Edit :: I should add every image I have just posted was without any MFA on my 7DII. it was set to zero and off ..If my next camera needs a touch hear and there it will get it
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It is pretty basic. I'm trying to find the lens rentals article on this subject. I don't really like MFA either but I do whatever to takes to correct back or front focus. Not random back to front. MFA won't correct that. Either you use MFA or you send both your camera a lens to Canon so they calibrate them to each other. It doesn't mean your gear is broken. It is just normal manufacturing drift which occurs with all products humans make.

People have suggested to try and and I don't see the harm in that. You don't have to accept it but at least you will know and then decide on what to do. Contrary to people saying I must MFA new gear I never do. I'll know in the first 20 shots if something is out badly. I'll use MFA to see what is going on an then decide a course of action. All my gear is usually within +-3 and sometimes up to 5. There was one exception. Canon says that don't expect radical shifts up to 5. This of course depends of distance, DOF, etc. Some will argue that is incorrect.

http://www.learn.usa.c​anon.com …oadjustment_art​icle.shtml (external link)


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Post edited over 3 years ago by Pondrader.
     
Dec 22, 2015 11:54 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #5279

I agree I've been boxing and unboxing for what seems like an eternity. I'm not sure why you think I don't. I was sent one body as a loaner and its been around and could very well have seen most of ontario. but I see problems with it, you only get a small sample on these pages. I was never given this loaner as replacement,.. It was in passing that this was said and I mentioned it here that was my mistake. Don't think for a second I don't use all the features of this camera. Theres nothing in it I don't use. And I as well had everything set for different events that may arise. C1,2,3 and * were all set for different light and focus points. but all cameras are not created equally and i'm just looking for the one that suits me ..and when I find it thats what Ill shoot. but I have no problem sending back a loaner that I'm not liking.


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Dec 22, 2015 12:03 |  #5280

http://www.lensrentals​.com …s-is-soft-and-other-myths (external link)

The people who calibrated you camera probably got it in spec but it does not mean it is dead centre. It would be nice it was. Maybe it is and your lens is out. You just happened to hit the sweat spot with both before this happened. As long as it is within spec to a tech it is satisfactory. I'm not defending TO. I don't like that place at all. So again it is personal choice of which path to take.


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