Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 29 Dec 2015 (Tuesday) 19:31
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

What flash equipment do I need for a black background like this?

 
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
8,818 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 1849
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
Dec 30, 2015 10:21 |  #16

Wilt wrote in post #17837528 (external link)
^^^
The biggest impediment to learning to light your subject is the inability to SEE with your own EYES the affect of light placement. A constant source allow you to see IMMEDIATELY as you move the light about the set, NEVER having taking a photograph until you are pleaseed with the PLACEMENT. Then after you see what pleases you, flash gives the exposure and DOF you need. ANY other use of lights is merely 'illuminating' the subject! Inanimate subjects are OK with trial and error shoot-and--chimp-and-adjust the lights. People get impatient and don't bother putting up with you again.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17837539 (external link)
Sorry but this is overstated in the digital era where the actual effect of the light placement can be reviewed imstantly on a monitor or review screen. Seeing the light can be equally misleading because flash duration and shutter speed can change the balance of light to shadow.

i agree with both of you. But I still feel for a total beginner using continuous is a great starting point, especially since he already owns them. I chimp like crazy with my non-modeling-light strobes, and will even aim a shop light at them on occasion as a fake modeling light, but you gotta start somewhere.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
40,703 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2171
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Dec 30, 2015 10:21 |  #17

gonzogolf wrote in post #17837539 (external link)
Sorry but this is overstated in the digital era where the actual effect of the light placement can be reviewed imstantly on a monitor or review screen. Seeing the light can be equally misleading because flash duration and shutter speed can change the balance of light to shadow.

You and I will simply need to agree to disagree on this point of the immediacy of visual feedback. What works for some will not work for others!

I realize that digital permits external monitors to review shots, but a hobbyist in particular when he/she is still learning and on a limited budget, will not have access to a meaningfully sized monitor driven from the camera. "Honey, in addition to that portrait lens I want, we need to buy an external monitor for me to use with the camera during shoots" (angry silence ensues...)
Copying JPGs from camera to PC to view on a 21" monitor them adds time and bother, vidwing them on the camera LCD is insufficient to see much detail.

You do draw a valid point about being careful about stray ambient light drawing one to the wrong conclusion about balance, but the main issue about placement are the shadows and where they fall...we do not want to emphasize the shadow cast by a wart.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sporadic
Senior Member
Avatar
559 posts
Gallery: 55 photos
Likes: 141
Joined May 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
     
Dec 30, 2015 11:27 |  #18

Just give yourself adequate space from your light source to your background and you can easily black it out.

sporadic wrote in post #17813253 (external link)
Taking over the kids playroom to play with my eBay and Craigslist scores.

Neewer 180ws strobe - $25
Neewer 20" x 28" softbox - $11
Vivitar 135 f/2.8 - Picked this up with a bunch of other vintage lenses for $20 locally

Who says you can't have fun on a budget!

thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by sporadic in
./showthread.php?p=178​13253&i=i407093
forum: Flash and Studio Lighting


QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Bz5z​fb  (external link)
Wassup (external link) by smerrick (external link), on Flickr


Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Alveric
Goldmember
Avatar
4,476 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Likes: 984
Joined Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Post edited over 2 years ago by Alveric.
     
Dec 30, 2015 13:07 |  #19

Dmax82, get rid of that silly light tent and place a black curtain or piece of foamcore a few feet behind your subject. Place your subject on a black surface or even better, hang it from a pole or lightstand or what have you with some fishing line. Then kill all the lights in the room but the one you're using for the photo, and make your exposure.

See what I did here to get a black background: https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=17807323

As an example, I used the fishing line trick to photograph this aubergine:

IMAGE: http://cdn.ipernity.com/200/21/84/37932184.ae7edd47.800.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.ipernity.co​m/doc/diamantstudios/3​7932184  (external link)
Aubergine (external link) by Alveric (external link), on ipernity

I removed the line in Photoshop after the fact. For reference, my background was a neutral gray roll of paper placed ~1-2 ft behind the subject, and you can see how it's almost black were it not for the lighting arrangement I used. Even a white background can be turned black if it's placed far back enough.

'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorable in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
Why 'The Histogram' Sux (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
40,703 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2171
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 30, 2015 14:47 as a reply to  @ sporadic's post |  #20

'Adequate space' is relative. Think of distances like f stops. If your subject is 2 feet from the light, when the background is 5.6 feet from the same specular light, it will be receiving -3EV less light.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Moderator
Avatar
75,488 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2279
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Dec 30, 2015 15:02 |  #21

Wilt wrote in post #17837918 (external link)
..., it will be receiving -3EV less light.

Which might be hard to get your head around. Look at: Fill light at sunset


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sporadic
Senior Member
Avatar
559 posts
Gallery: 55 photos
Likes: 141
Joined May 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Post edited over 2 years ago by sporadic.
     
Dec 30, 2015 15:25 |  #22

Wilt wrote in post #17837918 (external link)
'Adequate space' is relative. Think of distances like f stops. If your subject is 2 feet from the light, when the background is 5.6 feet from the same specular light, it will be receiving -3EV less light.

True, I was just trying to simplify it without talking about the inverse square law. Further away reflective thingy is from light, less shiny reflective thing will be :)


Fuji X-T1 | X-T2 | 35/1.4 | 10-24 | 18-55 | 55-200 | 50-140 | Rokinon 8/2.8II Fisheye | Rokinon 12/2
7D | 300/4 L IS

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nathancarter
Cream of the Crop
5,473 posts
Gallery: 32 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 589
Joined Dec 2010
     
Dec 30, 2015 16:06 |  #23

A couple of things.

You'll find that black plexi doesn't give the same crisp, sharp reflections as black glass. For squash-sized objects, you can get a piece of scrap glass, spray-paint the back side with cheap flat black paint, and have a great reflective surface. If you like the reflection to be much dimmer than the subject, the plexi is a good choice.

On lights.
Decent continuous lights are great for product photography. If you put the camera on a tripod, you can use a narrow aperture to get the whole thing in focus, then use a long shutter speed for proper exposure. No need for a high ISO. Make sure to use a gray card or some other method to get your white balance right.

The downsides of continuous fluorescent lights are that they aren't very bright, you usually can't adjust the power or the modifier style, and cheap one might have minute fluctuations in color temperature, especially as they age. Older continuous incandescents get really hot. Newer LED continuous lights, I don't have much experience with.


If you want a black background, the number one thing is to move the subject away from the background. The number two thing is to make sure the lights aren't shining on the background, but with plenty of distance that becomes a non-issue. Having an actual black backdrop (cloth, paper, muslin, whatevs) helps a lot, but it's not 100% necessary.


Setup with cheap fluorescent continuous lights, a crummy black muslin backdrop, and a IKEA glass-top coffee table.

NOTE if I had moved the coffee table further away, I would have had a pure black background. As it is, I didn't control my lights well and had some spill onto the muslin. Since doing this, I've gotten better - but it's still a good example.

IMAGE: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5265/5749696706_f8419ce188_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/9L5G​vQ  (external link) Tanqueray.20110522.760​2.jpg (external link) by Nathan Carter (external link), on Flickr

Results (same lights, different bottle):

IMAGE: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2006/5762892571_86fcfe7455_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/9Mfk​bK  (external link) Tanqueray.20110522.757​4.jpg (external link) by Nathan Carter (external link), on Flickr

Then I moved the top light behind the bottle:

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3573/5762891715_81ca4f5ff0_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/9Mfj​VZ  (external link) Tanqueray.20110522.757​3.jpg (external link) by Nathan Carter (external link), on Flickr


And the final result is this composite:

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6576528789_5bbc292906_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/b29q​Tp  (external link) Tanqueray and Friends on Reflective Black (external link) by Nathan Carter (external link), on Flickr

http://www.avidchick.c​om (external link) for business stuff
http://www.facebook.co​m/VictorVoyeur (external link) for fun stuff

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Alveric
Goldmember
Avatar
4,476 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Likes: 984
Joined Jan 2011
Location: Canada
     
Dec 30, 2015 18:25 as a reply to  @ nathancarter's post |  #24

Well, I dunno about lights or black glass, all I know is that your post made me extremely thirsty.

***Lumbers over to the kitchen and grabs the shaker***


'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorable in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
Why 'The Histogram' Sux (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DMax82
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
211 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 30
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Home Again (Nashville)
     
Dec 30, 2015 19:03 |  #25

Wow, I am just amazed by the wonderful feedback and advice that has been given! Thanks so much to everybody! I don't know that I can wait until Friday to take more pictures. Also not sure if the squash can wait either, as they are starting to age a bit! I have my new photo-taking layout in my head, and I think it will work okay. Hopefully my light source will be decent. I am so excited! I will certainly post pictures once I can take some. It would be great to get the pictures I want without spending any more money. Thanks again for all the great help!


T5i. Standard Canon zoom. Big Canon zoom. Wide Canon zoom. Plasticy Canon prime. Sony a6000 and a bunch of crappy old lenses plus a Samyang 12mm 2.0. Pentax K-5. Manfrotto tripod and head.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
40,703 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2171
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (6 edits in all)
     
Dec 30, 2015 23:34 |  #26

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17837934 (external link)
Which might be hard to get your head around. Look at: Fill light at sunset

You're jesting, Frank, I hope.

f/2 --- f/2.8 --- f/4 --- f/5.6 --- f/8 ...the progression of full f/stops
0EV, -1EV, -2EV, -3EV, -4EV ...the relative transmission of light for the progression of f/stops (using f/2 as the starting point)
2' --- 2.8' --- 4' --- 5.6' --- 8' ... fstop values used as distances
0EV, -1EV, -2EV, -3EV, -4EV ...the relative intensity of flash falling at those distances (using 2' as the nearest distance)


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Moderator
Avatar
75,488 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2279
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Dec 30, 2015 23:51 |  #27

Wilt wrote in post #17838424 (external link)
You're jesting, Frank, I hope.
... fstop values used as distances

Nope. "xEV" has little real life meaning to most people. Moving from 4' to 5.6' = 1 f-stop in light drop off is easier to understand, no?


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DMax82
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
211 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 30
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Home Again (Nashville)
     
Dec 31, 2015 23:50 |  #28

Well I am still not to where I want to be, but I feel like I am getting closer. I am using the overhead light from my little studio kit and have put a piece of black poster board over it to dull it. I dialed up the shadows a little in Picasa in order to make the blacks blacker. I need to better clean my plexiglass, and will tomorrow when I take more pictures. I will also see if I can do this in the daytime, or only at night with all of the other lights off. Sorry for the crappy quality of the second picture. Thanks again to everybody for all of the great help and advice!


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


T5i. Standard Canon zoom. Big Canon zoom. Wide Canon zoom. Plasticy Canon prime. Sony a6000 and a bunch of crappy old lenses plus a Samyang 12mm 2.0. Pentax K-5. Manfrotto tripod and head.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Alveric
Goldmember
Avatar
4,476 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Likes: 984
Joined Jan 2011
Location: Canada
     
Jan 01, 2016 00:12 |  #29

If you place a polariser filter over the lens you can get even more creative, as you can control the presence of the reflection and how dim it is.


'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorable in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
Why 'The Histogram' Sux (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DMax82
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
211 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 30
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Home Again (Nashville)
     
Jan 01, 2016 01:23 as a reply to  @ Alveric's post |  #30

Thanks Alveric, I'll have to give that a try!


T5i. Standard Canon zoom. Big Canon zoom. Wide Canon zoom. Plasticy Canon prime. Sony a6000 and a bunch of crappy old lenses plus a Samyang 12mm 2.0. Pentax K-5. Manfrotto tripod and head.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

8,667 views & 6 likes for this thread
What flash equipment do I need for a black background like this?
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is lisamariacpa
648 guests, 273 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.